Opinion
In Defense of Chasidic Culture
In response to the complaints about the pervasive negativity, real or perceived, of the Chasidic way of life by writers on this site, I have decided to write a short piece showing the flip side of the coin, the exquisite beauty of this way of life that comes through once you get to know it up close. Truth be told, I’m not the ideal candidate for this job. I have neither the time nor the inclination to expand on this subject and give it the consideration it deserves. But since it seems that nobody else will do it, I have decided, following Chazal’s dictum, to be the man where no one else will. Consider it a labor of love.
Foremost among the stereotypes insidiously promulgated here (between the lines) is that Chassidim, in the aggregate, live a cultish and uncultured existence. Yet this is as far from the truth as Mauritania is from the Atlantic. Chasidim do have a flourishing culture, even if it is mighty different from what outsiders would call culture. True, there is no quality art or poetry, literature or music produced by people working within the Chasidic framework. True, most who went through the Chasidic education system – and are not autodidactic – cannot tell the works of Beethoven, Shakespeare, or Picasso apart. True, novel thinkers or brash young artisans would quickly be crushed by the weight of tradition, so as not to mess with our own immovable cultural objectives. But thinkers and artisans mostly have sex on their minds anyway, and who wants that pollutant wafting through our streets and blackening the pure souls of our youth?
All that said we do have our own way of creating culture, and who can argue we are the worse for it? For example, many of our young men — lacking any other communally sanctioned secular outlets — learn how to play the keyboard. ‘Play’ may be a misnomer in many cases, but they certainly know how to make lots and lots of noise. And that is perfect for our own peculiar cultural dances, which in itself is certainly no worse than the cultural African dances one regularly sees on those National Geographic-type channels. Why is that not art? How can anyone argue we are culturally lagging behind the Western world?
True, we refuse to allow any outside cultural influences to affect us. The Internet is strenuously inveighed against in the hallowed halls of higher learning. The supposed wisdom of the gentiles is regularly shown to be just that, supposed. No science or history or chemistry or the horrors of calculus, philosophy, and biology will be allowed to influence us. But all this is for a good cause. Imagine someone accidentally discovering the writings of Darwin or Wittgenstein or Samuel Clemens, or scariest of all, discovering pictures of a shiksa’s naked boobies or a sheigetz’s uncircumcised penis. God knows our painstakingly maintained culture is in danger of collapsing like a house of cards! We cannot allow ourselves to take that risk.
But that does not mean we are completely closed off from our surroundings and are blind to the things of interest to us. No, our own culture works overtime to make sure we are aware of everything. Our enclaves are known to have gossip down to a fine art. Art and culture, working beautifully hand-in-hand. From the women who sneak out to attend college to the busiest of housewives, as long as they toe the line in public, will of necessity participate in this finely-honed art form, at least those living in certain well-known ghettos. This assures that we are not completely unaware of the world around us (or at least the ten miles around us). We know what most everyone had for breakfast, what types of entertainment they like to pursue, how smart or well-dressed or good-looking they are in relation to others, where they like to shop, how they dress and discipline their children, the make of their strollers, the time they go to sleep at night, how well they live with their spouse (if any), and the shape of their pubic hair (if any). How dare anyone in good conscience call us ignorant or lacking in culture?
So we have a fine and flourishing culture. But what about the charge that we are cult-like and obstinate in our false beliefs and our children are woefully mis-eduated? Nonsense! True, we teach our children to believe in and fear a false God. Yehovah, hoary God of the ancients, petty and meddlesome, long ago rendered impotent by Spinoza, mortally injured by Hume, put out of His misery by Nietzsche and finally buried by Russell. True, we teach them to believe that the universe is about 6,000 years old and is about to end in a few hundred years, an error of many, many orders of magnitude at both ends. True, we teach them that the Torah is the inerrant word of God when we know it is a composite work composed over many centuries. True, our children (and many of our adults) cannot tell a planet from a star or tell which should orbit the other. Many will insist that the sun orbits the earth still, as it did in pre-enlightenment times. And evolution, if it’s mentioned at all, is known to be a hoax pulled on us by militant atheists. Many know with smug surety the true history of earth and man, which properly goes approximately as Douglas Adams put it: “In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
But look at what we get in return! Compare our home-grown geniuses and charismatic leaders to those from the outside world, especially those who originally were Jewish but then foolishly decided to pursue secularism and science in place of sticking with our own theology, as irrational as we may think it is. Compare Rebbe R’ Burech of Mezhubizh, the inspiration of many mystical tales and miracle-stories that lifts one up to the loftiest heights imaginable and of whom every child has heard, to Rebbe R’ Burech Spinoza, long-ago dead and forgotten and left to rot in the dustbins of history. There is no comparison! Who has ever heard of Spinoza? Who is ever interested in his treatise or his thoughts, his Ethics or so-called philosophy of pantheism? Did you ever hear of a nice Chasidic boy or girl inspired by his writings? Or compare the genius of Rebbe R’ Issac’l Kaaliver, inspiring generations with his uplifting music bought from the little shepherd boy and Rebbe R’ Issac’l Kamarner, revealing to us all the deepest mysteries of angelic literature and how to connect to the true essence of the mystical universe, to Rebbe R’ Isaac’l Newton – what has he ever done for the betterment of mankind? Popularized some meaningless letters like F=mA? How pointless! Did any of us ever use this meaningless knowledge? Would the world miss him had he not been born?
Or take a genius like Albert Einstein. Religious for a short while in his youth, his mind was soon poisoned by reading philosophy and scientific literature, including Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason. He was poisoned to such an extent that he once wrote “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.” But what has the poor schmuck ever done for humanity? Has he helped us understand the true nature of our universe, like the holy Kamarner? Relativity is his greatest claim to fame, but is everything really relative? He famously claimed that God doesn’t play dice, but Niels Bohr of the Copenhagen school – himself a product of an unholy union of a Jewish mother and Christian father – certainly showed him up on that point. Poor Einstein, dead wrong and just plain dead as well. Compare him to the ever-living Chofetz Chaim, famed fighter of malicious gossip and warrior for all that is good and holy. His books and ideas are studied even today, unchanging and everlasting, in many languages and many circumstances, at home and abroad, right before the malicious gossip and right after.
Why would we as a culture give up on our unchanging and ageless truths known to us for millennia, for nebulous and always conditional scientific truths? After all, which is more likely to bring us closer to true knowledge — rigid and unchanging dogma we inherited from pre-historic times, or knowledge based on evidence, with the ever-present possibility of changing theories based on new evidence? Surely it is the former, since dogma will never be changed based on such a flimsy and gossamer idea as “reality.” And so why would we give up our chance of producing geniuses that truly affect the world and the way we live in it, just because it is the fashion of the day to educate your children?
Besides, in the final analysis, we don’t even miss that much in terms of knowledge of science and culture and art. I have been reliably informed that there are now Chasidic adults who have watched all three Godfather movies, and they don’t even need to hide that fact anymore! The new generation is much more relaxed about these things. Well, they need to hide it a little bit, but not from their personal friends. I have also been informed by persons claiming knowledge of such things that they can attend college if they chose to without negative repercussions — at least once they are married and have a few children — but think it silly because most college-educated professionals end up being erotic dancers or prostitutes in order to pay off their loans, and college education is useless anyway. (Although the Internet is still officially forbidden, apparently some do read Belle de Jour.) And I have heard of Kiruv professionals who can name the top teams of four different professional sports!
Apparently the outside culture has no problem seeping in. Pedophiles are now being sent to prison, and as I have been told by a bunch of the “cool” guys of the new generation, may they rot in prison with all other faggots out there. See, we have picked up some cultural tics from elsewhere. And I have even heard of a Chasidic woman who has her own secretary!
Yes, you may think of us as backwards, ignorant and uneducated rednecks who refuse to teach our children any useful knowledge at all and instead fill their heads with millennia old superstitions; or you may think of us as obstinate boors who will quickly quiet – by any means necessary – any dissenting voices or anyone who dares to be different; or you may think of us as a people lacking in appreciation of the tremendous leaps in knowledge and culture and art and politics made in the last five centuries. And all this may be true. Because we have our own culture and art with its own intrinsic beauty and this so called “knowledge” is dangerous and useless and doesn’t lead anywhere, as I have shown.
I will finish in the spirit of the famed and unparalleled Chasidic amity (as long as you’re not too different, in which case I will pour paint on your windshield and decry you as a heretic and an apostate who deserves death anyway, and who will certainly get what’s coming to you in hell) – I love you all, my Chasidic brethren!
Printable Version
.
Wicked
Like this comment?
2
Very sad, very true n well said too. Thank you
Like this comment?
2
zoog nur, di tipish einer, der goy veist fin a git shtikel kigel uder a heise mikvah?
Gevaldig!
Like this comment?
3
Isaac, Isaac, Isaac. Double aced, not double assed.
Like this comment?
1
Now I see why your parents gave you that name.
Pure unadulterated genius.
Like this comment?
2
The piece is undoubtedly clever, and in many places very well written. But there really is a case to be made–without sarcasm–for positive elements of chassidic culture.
Making such a case does not mean you have to choose to live in such a community, but choosing not to live there (or choosing to remain but wishing you were free enough to leave) does not mean that the lifestyle is, for many and in many ways, without its benefits and charm.
Every religious culture operates at a deficit of honesty on existential issues, and every traditional culture walls itself off, to one degree or another, from modernity. And every culture has its characteristic virtues and vices, strengths and weaknesses, beauties and ugliness.
Admittedly, it’s hard to appreciate that more positive side of chassidus when one feels trapped in such a community, or has paid a heavy emotional price to break free of its false foundational teachings. Moreover, because so many chassidim are so confident that they’re superior to others, in a way they deserve the sarcastic comparison.
But the piece opens by acknowledging how much the negative aspects of chassidism have already been explored on this site. Furthermore, the piece was supposed to be about culture, and there’s more to culture than intellectual honesty; more to culture, too, than scientific or artistic achievement.
To be clear, I chose to make my life in secular culture, but chassidishe culture, along with its many flaws, does have enough good to warrant an authentic, non-sarcastic defense…if one sought to embark upon making a defense.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
26
True, you plagiarized Laura, but— I have no Defense for you after the ‘but’. It just felt good.
Like this comment?
1
This piece was below the belt. It hurt. I was getting comfortable here after reading the first few sentences, expecting a nice pleasant read,when out of nowhere, this knock out punch.
Like this comment?
1
And whichother culture produces people who still get a thrill out of quoting an auhtor named “Samuel Clemens” without using the name he is known by?
It’s OK, I do it too.
Seriously though, excellent piece.
Like this comment?
2
Yonadab — Those who have something to prove…?
Like this comment?
1
Holy mother of Jesus! What a refreshing dose of sarcasm.
Superbly written, Baal Devarim.
So some goy or secularist actually helped improve human life. How would that come close to the authors of mysticism who remain inert on the dusty shelves?
We got the culture and the arts too.
The best part, and where I completely lost myself in a fit of laughter was this:
“Compare him to the ever-living Chofetz Chaim, famed fighter of malicious gossip and warrior for all that is good and holy. His books and ideas are studied even today, unchanging and everlasting, in many languages and many circumstances, at home and abroad, right before the malicious gossip and right after.”
Truly masterful.
Like this comment?
2
Shpitz!
Talk about chasidishe women being catty.
Look what it took to excite and flush you out of that self-imposed hibernation
Like this comment?
1
the grin on my face after reading this stretched from ny to cali.
Like this comment?
2
I don’t know much on Beethoven but I do know R’ Yehudah H’levi and Eben Ezra aren’t their poems as good as any of your heroes? Also the Jewish book shelve of 2000 years has much more than the Chofetz Chaim and R’ Isaacl kamarna, the field is Pretty diverse there’s philosophy and plenty of intellectual material.
As was pointed out if we should talk about Chasidic culture there are positive element involved and if one chooses to warp up in a self pity party and stay fixed on the shortcoming of the community it’s his sad choice. I for myself would rather focus on the positives and make myself happy.
Like this comment?
4
Loved it! We need Chassidim in order to expand the culture they have because no one else in their right mind would! We don’t want Chassidish culture to die out, do we? The world has plenty of doctors and lawyers out there. What we do need are people who are knowledgble of Jewish culture as our writer does to give us humor. As an aside I wonder how many of the readers of this blog have contributed to the advancement of human knowledge as the scientists mentioned in the essay? How many people truly accomplish anything in this world of significance? Does ignorace of science actually hurt us as much as the essay tries to show? How many people actually have the knowledge and have not contributed diddly squat?
Like this comment?
2
With the culture of worshipping at the graves of dead rabbi’s. are these guys even Jewish?
Like this comment?
1
Baal Devarim:
Sarcasm is the ultimate form of underhanded sniping.
That you are able to do it well is no compliment.
I don’t have the time to read through the piece properly nor to read the comments, but I agree with Velvel Chusid above.
Focus on the positve, and be happy.
Hasidic Rebel:
Re ur offer (on the other post), one day I might get around to writing something. I used to love it, but just dont have the time any more.
Come to think of it, I don’t have the motivation either. I’ve extinguished the fires of frustration which burned within me back in the days when I used to write on my blog.
Anyway, no shortage of frustration among the writers and some commenters here.
Like this comment?
3
AW: very well-put–and with more restraint than the article you were addressing.
I love a shot of sharp intellectual honesty as much as anyone, even better when spiked with some bracing, witty sarcasm—that’s the kind of stuff I often enjoy in these blogs. This piece may have aspired to that, but it fell far short; it came across as more bitter than savory, a series of cheap shots dealt out with heavyhanded “irony” in the unsubtle sense of the word typified on most TV sitcoms (not a compliment)—pretty much equivalent to, “Chassidim are broadminded—not!” Oh, how clever.
It’s kind of disappointing to notice lately how on these blogs—-so many of which like to see themselves as fearlessly iconoclastic, knocking down religious pieties with a blast of secular Objectivity—many of the readers so easily succumb to the Echo Chamber effect—reflexively applauding the “brilliance” and “genius” of any article which jives with their own biases & grievances, while objectivity is kicked to the curb. This was not brilliant.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
12
clever piece.
1 minor correction totally unrelated to the content of the post; Newton made famous F=ma not F=mA (acceleration not area)
Like this comment?
1
With all due respect – there are those of us within the Chassidishe world who do know of Beethoven, Picasso, et al., who write symphonies and string quartets, who went to Juilliard and even have PhDs and the like (chas v’sholom!!!!)- but who are ALSO able to negotiate the prickly path, unfailingly, between Carnegie Hall and Ross Street. Granted, we’re a very small minority, often rejected and excoriated by our chevrah – but no less a part of the whole, no less committed!
Like this comment?
4
I’ll play mitnagid’s Advocate; much like the long-dead raskolniki Gentile religious practices and cultural ways the Chassidim preserve for us, as noted by the original bans declared by the Gedolim (chronicled by Yaffa Eliach in her “Russian Dissenting Sects and Their Influence on Israel Baal Shem Tov, Founder of Hassidism”, also her Doctoral Dissertation, and Raphael Patai in his “The Jewish Mind” and others; they both somehow missed the wedding candles shtick copied from the Eastern Orthodox weddings), even the chassidishe maskilim seem to be the repository for atheist and freethought authors no longer read with earnest.
Like this comment?
1
AW, a few points:
“But there really is a case to be made–without sarcasm–for positive elements of chassidic culture.”
I actually agree — without sarcasm. But there is also a case to be made for the positive elements of the ugliest and vilest of cultures and governments and modes of living such as prisons (food security!) or refugee camps (close-knit community!). The question always is, how significant are those positive elements in the grand scheme of general unpleasantness?
“but choosing not to live there … does not mean that the lifestyle is, for many and in many ways, without its benefits and charm.”
It is always charming to people who don’t live that way themselves — people who partake in everything the modern world has to offer and then, in their spare time, point and nod at the charming backward naifs, going about their daily lives unburdened by our own superior knowledge and modern ways. It quickly loses its “charm” when you actually try living that way. However, again, I agree with you about the benefits; it certainly has *some* benefits. Unfortunately however, the trade-offs are in a different league altogether; you cannot even begin to do a cost-benefit analysis.
“and every traditional culture walls itself off, to one degree or another”
Again, you are correct. The operational phrase being “to one degree or another.” It is exactly this degree of walling itself off that I intended to address.
“Moreover, because so many chassidim are so confident that they’re superior to others, in a way they deserve the sarcastic comparison.”
It is not a question of deserving something or other. It is the fact that the very things commonly held up to teach us how superior we are to others actually show the very opposite, once you learn to think for yourself. It is this, among other things, I intended to highlight. I realize that to someone not privy to chassidish street-talk and not educated in chassidish institutions, the irony of my examples might be lost.
“there’s more to culture than intellectual honesty; more to culture, too, than scientific or artistic achievement”
True; my list was not exhaustive. Again however, the question must be, does our culture have enough redeeming value elsewhere to cover the extreme lack of the things enumerated? And the answer is: no, it doesn’t.
“To be clear, I chose to make my life in secular culture”
As I suspected as soon as I saw your “charming” claim. (I hope you don’t take this personally, as it isn’t meant to be, but *that* particular claim gets tiring real quick.)
“but chassidishe culture, along with its many flaws, does have enough good to warrant an authentic, non-sarcastic defense”
“Enough” must necessarily remain a subjective claim, not amenable to any proof or disproof. Let me just point out that you yourself do not think it has enough good to live that way, nor does most *anyone* else who doesn’t believe in its foundational claims! Given that the culture certainly has some benefits, why is that so?
And so while I actually agree with most of what you said here (and thank you for taking the time to say it — I think your comment is level-headed and has much truth to it), it doesn’t address the gist of my claim which is basically this: whatever benefits our culture provides notwithstanding, it is extremely broken, regressive, and rather primitive. It tends to kill independent thought, does its utmost to kill human achievement in — and even just study of — all of the arts and sciences, produces shoddy solipsistic scholarship, values dogma and ignorance over innovation and knowledge, produces very little of true beauty or importance (by design, not by accident), and chokes off any and all intellectual activity by putting obeisance to authority above all else. Education is out-of-date by about eight centuries, the belief system is largely out-of-date by at least three centuries, standards of art or beauty by about one-and-a-half centuries, and the internal rivalries? Completely modern. (I hasten to add that the *culture* is that way, not necessarily the people in it, many of whom are smart, self-educated, and in any case extremely kind and productive members of society by any measure one chooses to apply.)
Worst of all, all this rests on a foundation with… no foundation. Charming and beneficial? Not by any measure I can think of.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
9
AW, JRS, BD, et al:
I’ve been hesitant to comment on this for the very reason BD pointed out: I’ve chosen to remove myself from this society. While I do think the piece is indeed “brilliant” in many ways (the writing is certainly clever, turns of phrase that IMHO show masterful literary skill), I too found the sarcasm acerbic. But I no longer live the life, and with that, I’ve lost the prerogative to criticize those who still live it for scorning its omnipresent suffocations.
Chasidic culture is beautiful to the many who buy into its foundational principles. It even has beauty to many who don’t (I among them). But those of us who don’t live it can witness its charms and be fascinated by its quaintness in the same way we might admire, say, an exotic and mesmerizing tribal dance in the sub-Sahara. We find it fascinating, and perhaps having “cultural value,” but we don’t wish we were part of it.
As for Chasidic “culture,” to the degree that it can be called that, it is akin to the admiration we might find for the literary creations of the bible, or the mind-numbing mental gymnastics of Talmudic exegesis. Beautiful creations for their time and place, brilliant minds dealing creatively with legalistic arcana, but happily not applicable to “us” moderns.
Having said that, we’re desperately waiting for someone to offer a thoughtful piece that does highlight the merits of Chasidic society, warts and all, with honesty for its shortcomings but with appreciation for all it does offer, both to the insider and outsider. So far, for all the criticism we get for the “negativity,” there haven’t been any takers. So if any of you ladies and gentlemen feel up to the task, we here would be quite grateful for the opportunity to receive it.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
7
lets not forget about the beautiful yom tov pesach that we all will so joyfully celebrate, from the begining of the haggadah were we will invite “all” hungry to come celebrate, to the arba bonim were we will put the rusheh in his place, all the while the children are getting their yidishe chinuch of stealing the afikomen, after all its a known fact that it is the only method to keep our children awake till four am. the fact of the matter is, that the genious of the baal hagadah is undisputible every piece we say brings us to a higher level to god, and how can a goy even understant the heights a yidish neshumeh reaches when he gets all the way up to the climax of the hagadah, “CHAD GADYA” {after all its the only part of the hagadda were i can see the connection to our community}
Like this comment?
2
I would like to pose a question to unpious readers .
Hypothetically speaking, if given the choice at birth, would you chose to be born Chasidish? (Yeshivish is the same, except without the kuggle and fun).
This can be your litmus test. Are you truly Unpious.
Like this comment?
1
>I love you all, my Chasidic brethren!
What? No love for your Litvishe bretheren??
Like this comment?
1
I’ve burnt my tikkun-chatzot oil dry, and bedikat-chametz candle from both ends searching all ultraorthodox nooks n crannies for the redemptive crumbs of culture and the communal virtues it yields its members and society at large. The most vital and beneficial aspects of its claim-to-fame I found to be, the great utilitarian practices, namely charitable endeavors, and charitably speaking we can say unsurpassed altruism, rehashed again n again at least thrice daily. However, in the areas of the mind, science, art and of course with self-expressive creativity, there’s a grave deficiency. True, Ultraorthodox Judaism shares the cultural heritage of greater Judaism, be it that of the rabbis–; philosophers, –poets, –mystics, –ethicists, etc. etc.; but, whereas many segments of greater Judaism, and even many a Gentile scholar too, choose to seriously, diligently, and some even reverently toil in these ‘Our Vineyards’, I’m sad to observe that “Our vineyards We haven’t kept”. “Shan’t the priestesses be at least on par with the inn-keepers”, screams unheeded the Talmudic aphorism. Someone, pray tell, in which ‘heimishe yeshivah’ there of the past half century there’s been a course of study on Maimonides Guide, Rabbi Yehudah Halevi’s poetry, or that of Ibn Ezra… Yes, of course, before each Holy-Day many yeshivas diligently peruse the great contemporary commentary on the liturgical poems the Machzor HaMphorash, but just enough to add some thickness to the thickly-lip-service known as davening. Which leads me to the search of a ‘heimishe yeshiva’ to provide a serious course (shiur) in Jewish mysticism, [ok; I’ll forgo Luria and Zohar and all other texts that have received an age limit, but] ‘Chasidism’ for crying out loud. Those half-hearted half-hours of prayer prep free study, though advisedly to be utilized for the study of ‘Chassidism’, is in best case reality nothing more than the equivalent of an extended lip service pledge of allegiance and recital of an anthem, just enough to give the students who choose to indulge in a pauper’s pride: “We are Chassidim”. Compare the yeshiva most devoted in such studies to even a community college department of Judaic studies, let alone the quality of said departments in ivy-league schools. The quality of yeshivah study will be beyond pale in comparison. [This holds true with quite a few ‘secular’ scholars of Talmud.] In ‘heimishe yeshivas’, serious study in these fields, are at best considered extra-extra-curricular, and at worst, but mostly, given an honorable discharge to a book case near the terrible ‘seforim-chitzonim’ section; the section wherein our Talmudic authors saw fit to depose of Jesus Ben-Sira [Ecclesiasticus], the Maccabees, Barukh, Enokh, Judith… Why, even a handful of the Four n Twenty Sacred Scripts survived such fate by a hairsbreadth. And the later rabbis keeping this as their mission, saw to these lists growth; by mutually banning, delegitimizing, and status-denigrating many of each other’s works and thoughts. This tradition of composing ever growing shunning and banning lists is alive and well in its various forms; the most recent and most notable one being, any avocational/recreational use of this very media via which we are currently communicating. Yes, the ever fruitful n multiplying stratifications of the new and ever-tightening circle of us vs. the ever broadening others, these constant new lines of defense for communal preservation/fossilization, and ghettoizing is perhaps the last vital aspect of this culture; verily tis the evergreen wreath upon the headstone of this culture’s grave ad hayom hazeh.
Enough steam blown off till next time,
Peace n love
Like this comment?
3
cb, I suppose the reason BD typed Newton’s second law as F=mA is to differentiate between vector quantities of force and acceleration, and the scalar quantity of mass.
Like this comment?
1
BHB, I wasn’t aware I had any Litvishe brethren.
But of course my love extends to them as well.
Mar Baravashi, thanks. That is correct. But I accept cb’s correction since as you know, by convention, where markup is available, I should have put the a in bold instead of in capital, like so: F = ma
Or to keep poor old Albert happy too (and closer still to Newton’s original): F = dp/dt
Like this comment?
1
“Hypothetically speaking, if given the choice at birth, would you chose to be born Chasidish?”
I’m not sure that’s the litmus test of the “unpious,” but it’s certainly an interesting question. I for one am glad, in hindsight, that I was born and raised Chasidish AND that I ultimately chose to leave. Personally, my formative years within Chasidish society provided me with a lot to love about the community and its culture, and I find that it was enriching in many ways.
But that’s only in hindsight — it’s not a question of choice. If really given the choice, I can’t honestly say how I’d feel. Perhaps I’d have chosen “Chasidish” if I knew I’d never be tormented through the accidental discovery of a more expansive worldview. Barring that, I’d have to say I’d choose “secular.”
Like this comment?
3
BD,
In the broad pallete of human experience, what is charming, and what disgusting, is, of course, very often a matter of subjective taste and interpretation.
If it is your conclusion that chassidic culture is overwhelmingly negative and whatever benefits it can claim are far outweighed by its oppressions and limitations, you are certainly entitled to that conclusion. But it is a subjective conclusion–and many others come to an opposite subjective conclusion. Not only do the great majority of chassidim remain in their community, a good number of baalei teshuvah choose the lifestyle and stick with it, even though they’re familiar with alternatives.
“The poet looks at the world the way a man looks at a woman,” is an aphorism that bespeaks the importance of how we do the looking, and not only the objective nature of what it is we’re looking at.
And while you’re correct that those who live within a chassidic community have a perspective that those who live outside it don’t, the opposite applies, too: Those who live the secular lifestyle (long enough to have passed the infatuation stage and to know it intimately) have a perspective on it that those within chassidic communities looking out longingly at the secular lifestyle lack. (I, by the way, have lived both within the chassidish/yeshivish community and outside it. But I don’t pretend that my perspective is the only valid one.)
Modern Western culture as it is lived by its masses–not Newton or Einstein or Beethoven or a few Pullitzer winners–can be legitimately criticized on many counts: disintegration of the family, loss of community cohesiveness, weak-principled moral relativism…and on and on.
“Posessions are diminished by possession,” goes another aphorism, and conversely we tend to overvalue what we want but do not have. Some who see up close the warts of chassidism don’t see up close the sores of secularism; and some who see, from a distance, the charms of secularism, are mystified that others, from a distance, see the charms of chassidism.
I have a powerful need for intellectual honesty, as well as for freedom. Many don’t. Instead, many prefer tradition and security–and do not feel oppressed, but rather inspired or safe within the “walls” of the shtetl. I can argue passionately for the importance of the values I hold dear, but I wouldn’t mistake that for insisting that communities who hold my values in lower esteem have few if any redeeming qualities.
Had the piece been titled, “The case against Chassidic communities,” I would still say it makes the case only for the prosecution, and does so in an unnecessarily snarky way, but it wouldn’t have bothered me as much as the way the piece pretended (in its title and opening) that it was going to defend Chassidic communities, and then uses sarcasm and mocking to highlight only its negatives–a tactic and method of analysis that can hardly be seen as fair-minded. Intellectual honesty is, I believe, required of us even when we criticize those who, in important ways, are deficient in that quality.
But as I conveyed in my original comment, I admire a good deal of the writing craft you evidence in the piece.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
5
AW, while I agree with a great many things you say, I must reject what seems to be your central thesis. You are correct in saying that what is charming or disgusting necessarily comes down to personal taste and perception. Ultimately, morality itself necessarily boils down to the same. But this is the very “weak-principled moral relativism” you so rightfully decry. Just because I cannot produce a mathematical proof showing that a society which keeps its members perpetually and woefully ignorant and which rejects in the most extreme manner any trace of individualism and innovation (amongst many other societal ills) is morally bankrupt and culturally regressive does not mean that I cannot claim it as an objective fact. Or at least as close to an objective fact as these things can be, without letting the discussion descend into a post-modernist morass on the nature of truth and the essence of a “fact.”
We can take for granted that some things, while not strictly provable, will nevertheless be agreed upon by most fair-minded individuals, similar to ideas about basic moral standards and the value of democracy over tyranny, or even some universal ideas about excellence, beauty and taste. The nature of our community clearly falls into this category, irrespective of whether one mentions the unfortunate facts sarcastically or in a straightforward manner.
And I also agree that secularism, as practiced in the western world today, is not the panacea some would like it to be. I never thought it is. But I believe you exaggerate when you mention the “good number of baalei teshuvah” who live the chassidish lifestyle. I know of precious few; maybe not even one. Yes, I know of baalei teshuvah who ostensibly belong to a chassidish community: they wear the garb and daven in the right shul. But in their day-to-day lives they do things like hold tenured professorships or write secular novels; options that are not available to those truly living the lifestyle as society demands. They are given much leeway due to their baal teshuvah status, and they take full advantage of it. This is what I would call “eating your cake and having it, too.”
And I don’t think I need explain why the fact that the great majority of Chassidim remain in the community proves absolutely nothing. Ultimately, even if we can find a limited number of people who do chose this lifestyle out of their own free will, I still maintain that in general terms most fair-minded people will agree with my uncharitable view once they know the facts, as I said above.
And most surprising to me is that you seem to impute some sort of underhandedness or dishonesty to the way I wrote the piece. Snark and sarcasm? Okay, I’ll take that charge. But I don’t see how sarcasm can be construed as dishonesty. Also, I think I made my feelings clear from the very beginning, or nearly so. Mauritania does have a 500 mile (or thereabouts) border with the Atlantic after all.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
6
HT
The simple answer is, that given a choice, I have no question that I would choose to be born in a secular environment, or perhaps in a MO household.
But, I am pretty happy with my life right now, I have a lovely wife and a wonderful family life. I suspect, however, that had I not been subjected to the limits and “fences” that are so detested on this website, I might very well have been nowadays a zombie pothead living in some hellhole. Or worse. I say that knowing my tendency to “know no limits”. On the other hand, it is arguable that without the limits imposed on me by others, I would have learned to lead a decent and fulfilling life on my own, and so the crutches that enable me to walk are the ones crippling me. Who knows.
Like this comment?
2
Kaff,
For the record, I dare say I live a wonderful life myself.
But that hardly answers the “choice question”. You can despise a lifestyle, and still be lucky and happy within it.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Like this comment?
1
A “culture” shouldn’t need to be defended nor criticized, because cultures evolve to maximise the satisfaction of its people, given their constraints.
As you mentioned, there are some positive aspects of Chasidim and some negative elements. But, one could argue, that the reason why most people choose to remain Chasidic, is because the benefits of being a Chusid outweighs the costs.
In reality, however, the radical people within the Chasidic society have an incentive to reduce the level of attrition by enforcing prohibitions that limits interaction with the outside world and that imposes enormous costs (financially and emotionally) to Chasidim who want to leave or those who to introduce positive changes to the Chasidic society.
Therefore, you cannot simply defend Chasidic Culture by listing out a range of benefits without considering whether it overcomes the costs of living in the Chasidic environment. Chasidim do have a flourishing culture, because the people who live that way of life, don’t have the option of switching out and the culture can sustain itself without the pressure of reformation.
Your argument that it produces home-grown geniuses, it irrelevant. Because, it essentially says that it is okay to force an entire society to live in a culture that promotes geniuses, even if many individuals do not want to live that way of life.
Like this comment?
1
“Yes, I know of baalei teshuvah who ostensibly belong to a chassidish community: they wear the garb and daven in the right shul. But in their day-to-day lives they do things like hold tenured professorships or write secular novels; options that are not available to those truly living the lifestyle as society demands. They are given much leeway due to their baal teshuvah status, and they take full advantage of it. This is what I would call “eating your cake and having it, too.”
Exactly.
Reminds me of a video I watched, an Aish PR pitch. They were showing them in many frum communities to try to get the hoi peloi involved in Kiruv
The men and women, the BTs the featured were all glamorous looking. Doctors and professors married to Barbie dolls.
After the film, I raised my hand and told the Kiruv guy that I could not sell *his* brand of Judaism to anyone. It looks nothing like my own. The lifestyle in my neighborhood resembles that of the Jehova Witness way more than it does what was presented on film.
Like this comment?
2
BD,
The moral relativism I refer to in much of contemporary secular culture are tendencies–especially in academia, the supposed cream of enlightened civilization–such as equating suicide bombers attacking civilians to an army attacking armed fighters; or equating certain rap–rife with glorification of murder and the crudest of instant gratification and hostile unrestrained language, to any other form of art.
Simply because one sees fault with over-equating when critical and meaningful differences apply, does not mean that one must go to the other extreme and mock a culture by the lights of another culture, and use a “mental filter” to mention only the bad of the former and the good of the latter.
And that is the intellectual dishonesty I was referring to: I don’t mean you intended to lie or anything of the sort. What I mean is that when we are hurt by something or someone we quite naturally tend to focus on our pain and on the deficiencies and flaws of that person or thing we have found painful.
Such lack of balance is generally not intended. Just like the vast majority of chassidim do not intentionally lie when they profess their core beliefs, yet we agree that their worldview lacks a significant degree of intellectual honesty, so too when a person is passionate about a cause–and this applies to most activists, whether environmentalists, peace protesters, minority rights crusaders, or fiercely partisan Republicans or Democrats–they tend to see things in an unbalanced way, and attribute far too much negative to that which they oppose, and look away from or make excuses for the bad in that with which they are aligned.
Famously, teen-agers often see primarily shameful and irritating things in their parents, while a neighbor–who admittedly doesn’t see the parent as up-close, but for that reason can paradoically often be more objective about that parent–doesn’t generally have as negative a view.
On a Friday night the masses of one community, not given choice, are gathered around their tables in intact famlies, with candles, wine, blessings, traditional songs and foods, generally go to sleep sober, at a healthy hour, and with no new diseases, while the masses of another non-community are free to do what they please…for some it’s a delightful dinner with candles and wine and a caring partner or family, but for many others it’s a late night at the bar and/or going home with a stranger or staying up lonely through half the night on the Internet…bereft of grounding ritual, healing bonds, and wholesome boundaries.
As mentioned in my previous comment, I choose behavioral and intellectual freedom over the good things of stable and traditional community–but if I were to write a critique or comparison of different lifestyles, it would be far from an all-or-nothing proposition where one side’s grave inadequacies are not mentioned (or if mentioned are only done in a simplistic way so as to heap scorn on the benighted chassidim who might point such things out) and what are presented as the other side’s few good points are straw men only used as a set-up for withering sarcasm.
Had you said that secular society has many serious flaws, but has the incomparable benefits of a substantial freedom to direct one’s own actions and thoughts, and chassidic society has many good and stable benefits but is plagued by the terrible flaws of intellectual and behavioral submission of the individual to the community’s rigid standards, I would have enthusiastically agreed.
BD, if you are still living in the chassishe community and are feeling stifled, my heart goes out to you. I don’t know your family situation, and your agonizing considerations as to whether to stay or leave. And if you have left, but feel sad and angry at what you perceive as wasted opportunities and years, I understand that, too, and I can relate. My objection was not to you and your feelings, but to what I saw as an unfair comparison billed as more than a comparison…billed as a defense of the way of life that was instead, in a partisan approach, verbally savaged.
I think we’ve covered our points of view on this matter, so I won’t respond further.
I thank you for the civil tone of our discourse, and I welcome you to have the last word.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
6
“You can despise a lifestyle, and still be lucky and happy within it. The two are not mutually exclusive.”
Absolutely. My point is that since now I am living a relatively happy life, how do I know that this isn’t partly due to my chassidic background? There are happy people and unhappy ones on both sides of the divide, of course, but isn’t it possible that one lifestyle or the other might be better suited for a specific individual’s unique nature and psychological makeup? How can I know with certainty that I would have the same happy result if I would be born into a secular family, everything else being the same?
Like this comment?
1
A wonderful piece but, as you joked at the beginning, there IS truly a need for a dissenting voice in this sphere. I think that dissenting voice would point out that your comparison of the worst of the Chissidishe world with the best of the non-Chassidishe world is somewhat unfair and has long been the stock in trade of anti-semities.
I understand the sentiments that lead to the sort of bitterness that causes the unfair comparison (specifically the fact that you’re suffering from the worst of the chassidishe world when you would be reaping the harvest of the best of the non-Chassidishe world, or at least fantasize that you would) but it’s still an unfair comparison and the legions of less critical thinkers who come to this site in quest of communal license ought to be able to read an actual dissenting piece.
How about a thread where each of us share – wih no qualifying at all (avak lashon horah) – what we genuinely love about the frum way of life.
I doubt whether we can successfully pull it off without legions of ‘ifs ands or buts’ along the lines of “although I think that blah blah blah, they still have a great…whatever” but I think that we ought to.
We alone have the knowledge and distance to be able to see the nice aspects of that community honestly and ought to step up to the venture. The realm of criticism is nowhere near as saturated as the realm of hagiography when it comes to those guys but not in OUR circles. What say we rectify that with a thread of unqualified positives that we appreciate and admire?
Like this comment?
2
AW, your clarity of thinking amazes me; it is superior by far to what I expect to read in the comment section. Do you write? Any essays I can read?
Like this comment?
4
I second that, Laura.
Like this comment?
2
Laura and Bethany II,
Thank you for your gracious words.
It happens that in addition to my vocation in the mental health field, I’m a writer, and I’ve written a book on the cluster of searing existential topics relating to God, religion, and life’s meaning…which makes the case, in an emotionally sensitive and lyrical fashion, for reverent agnosticism, and grapples with the loss of faith, with mortality, etc.
I haven’t solicited the request for information about my writing, and my goal in having written the book is not to make money, but rather to speak to the hearts and minds of those for whom my voice resonates. For those reasons (and because if I instead asked people to email me for the information they might fear losing their anonymity) I’m comfortable mentioning the title of the book.
It’s “The Sage and the Seekers” (and it’s available at Amazon.com). For a few excerpts, see http://www.SageandSeekers.com. (And, if you do want to be in touch by email, you can do so from there.)
Thanks again for your interest.
Like this comment?
1
The question is really – is it that hard to bridge the gap. Ok you wont wear pants but drop the bullet proof stockings and wear a low scraf on your head. Dont eat tref but go out to resturuants outside your boro park/monsey/williamsburg boundaires (trust me they are pretty good)…
Is it that hard?
Like this comment?
1
Dichotomy – Any chasidic individual has to weigh up the risk of being caught versus the pleasure of eating treif. The potential negative effect of being caught is enourmous, but the pleasure of eating treif isn’t so big relatively.
I am still miffed by the title “In Defense of Chasidic Culture” Surely it would be up to every person to decide if they like the Chasidic Culture or not. The real question that needs asking, is if someone who grow up Chasidic would have the opportunity to leave, if they wish?
The answer in almost all cases is “no”
So, how can you defend a culture, when its people have no chance to opt out?
Like this comment?
1
You do have a chance to opt out – except that the ostrasization (is that even a word) is much bigger in certain chassidic worlds. But I am simply wondering how no bridge can be made – it is either black or white.
For example in lubavitch you can not have a beard and still have shabbos in your parents home and then walk out and go visit friends where you watch TV. The key is to accept those who dont act the same way as you but everyone needs to understand respect. If your parents are frum then dont wear jeans n front on them (im a female evidently) or put your cell on silent when your at their house on shabbos.
Does it have to be do or die?
Like this comment?
1
what you are bemoaning, in my opinion is the fact that most people (chassidim included) are pig fucking ignorant and totally influenced, unindependant people..
those that arent, arent. and those that are, are.
I think that everything you said exists equivalently prevalently in the secular world. people are puppets, blindly following stupid ideas, concerned about what others think, following long ago disproved ideas, narrow, into gossip, stupid and scared of change.
but there are secular people not like that. and talmidei chachomim as well. broad, accepting, kind, deep, open and well read.
its nothing to do with the belief system. its got everything to do with how deep an intellectual you are.
Like this comment?
4
dichotomy: that was the point I was making, a person who wants to leave has a choice to do so, but they would face enormous costs (like ostracization and financial costs). Therefore, many more people would have left, if they didn’t face all these barriers. It has to be black or white, because if there was a bridge, there would me a mass exodus from the Chasidic world.
Have a look at a recent survey by Hillel, which found that the most difficult thing that people face when leaving the Charedi world was “financial, housing and paying for food”
Most difficult aspect of leaving the Haredi society?
39% – Financial costs, housing, paying for food
33% – The effect on my family
18% – Adapting to secular society
10% – Completing Bagrut (like SATs)
Like this comment?
1
happy: every person is shaped and influenced by their environment, we are all sheep following the herd. But you are right, it has nothing to do with the belief system, most people just follow everyone else.
Herding behaviour is a necessary evolutionary trait, because those who deviated from conformity could not survive. However, when there is a free market of ideas, it will weed out the bad ideas and the good ideas will survive. Chasidic culture is very effective in suppressing a free market of ideas, and can therefore persist in their medieval beliefs of magic and mofsim. We need to brake down the barriers that prevent people from leaving, this will act as a discipline mechanism to force the Chasidic culture to adapt where they need to, but retain positive aspects of their culture.
Like this comment?
1
It seems like more whining about what woulda, coulda, shoulda. If you amounted to something else from the place you were born, you had every freedom to do it. Maybe you didn’t have the courage or you had it late. So what. I have met many well educated Chasids and your reality could just be in your house. Maybe you had a tradition of stupid ignorant people in your family. Dont worry, I dont believe its widespread. The fact is that your premise is: you have to be ignorant to remain a chasid or at least have the weakness of not being able to succeed leaving. I am sure there are many, indeed a huge majority, that can eloquently defend their belief and tradition without the use of sarcasm. You know, sarcasm is just a way of throwing stones when you have no real arguments for your case. Like here.
Like this comment?
4
All this article is saying is that the Hasidic Jewish society is no different than any other community of humans.
Like this comment?
2
Shh, ARTH, don’t tell. This site is gonna go under if everyone realizes this.
Like this comment?
1
ARTH, not quite right. Some other subcultures have recreated themselves completely in opposition to and as a defense against larger societies in which they exist. But in the modern age few have turned to that as completely and exclusively as the modern charedim, litivsh as well as chassidic.
The “fence around the Torah” has grown until nobody can get within sight of the sucker. The derech is narrower than a razor blade and shrinking every day. In Israel the “traditional” Jews are turning into a bunch of junior-grade Wahabi wannabes. Thank God they’re pathetically incompetent at physical violence. At least so far.
And it’s all in the service of rejecting anything outside their attempt to stop the world in a dreary and paranoid fantasy of late 19th to mid 20th century Russia and Hungary. This is on the same level as King Canute ordering the tide to go out and about as successful.
When you have to defend every criminal in your midst something has gone wrong. When you feel you must exercise hydraulic despotism over people’s sex lives, every bite they eat, their ability to communicate, every note of music, the words on every single page and destroy your own economy in order to keep a single unauthorized thought from intruding you don’t have a culture anymore. You have a pathology. MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN L8R DOODZ LOL is already twittered on the walls.
Like this comment?
1
Some people will pipe up and say this shows I hate Jews and Judaism.
It’s precisely because I love them both that I feel compelled to say these things. We’re headed in a direction which may well destroy us. And more of the same done with bigger threats, harsher stringencies and tighter controls simply will not work. Economically, educationally, socially, philosophically, emotionally, historically take your pick.
I want to see Jews survive as a people. And I want to see Judaism survive as a vibrant, thriving religion and philosophy. But the course we’re on pretty much guarantees the opposite.
Like this comment?
2
Yes, you are correct, the “fence around the Torah” in Haredi society in particular and in Orthodox society in general is becoming narrower and narrower. There is something to criticize and for some people, unbearable about it. I do not dispute that.
Nevertheless, this article-writer had failed to distinguish between what is wrong with Haredi society and what is wrong or at least normal in any Human society or community based on given assumptions or ideas or ideals.
Like this comment?
1
It’s personal for BD, so he writes more acerbically and with more than a touch of bitterness. His basic point is well taken. Until the fairly recent rise of Charedism Judaism was in a period of experimentation and adaptation. The Reform, Conservative and what we now call Modern Orthodox movements were certainly not perfect. But they represented attempts to make Judaism work in in the Industrial Age.
For reasons we could discuss at length that is ending. Judaism is polarizing into the completely unaffiliated and the Charedim. One answer leads to Judaism disappearing like a drop of ink in a tub of milk. The other leads to a reactionary insupportable Judaism which is doomed to poverty, ignorance and extinction.
I can’t say I like either alternative.
Like this comment?
1
Todd,
In general, I share your disappointment with Chareidi extremism, and your wish for Jewish survival (though I make the distinction between the Jewish people and the Jewish religion; I’m ambivalent about the survival of Judaism. Sentimentally I say yes; philospically I find it hard to justify that position).
Speaking of the future of Judaism you write: “The other leads to a reactionary insupportable Judaism which is doomed to poverty, ignorance and extinction.”
Though I’m far from a fan of the Charedi lifestyle, I wonder whether some of the above words are overly pessimistic. It’s been said that “Nothing breeds like poverty,” in which case extinction is unlikely for Charedim even if they are doomed to poverty and ignorance.
Moreover, because of technology, hard as Charedi leadership may try, the walls of the ghetto can no longer be built high enough or thick enough. Many will push back against extremism, and some of these–those who still value a Jewish identity, of peoplehood or religion–will find a middle way. Indeed, it’s not only the center that gives way to the fringes, when the pendulum swings it’s often the extremes that give way to the center.
Finally, it may be that visionaries can see the errors of the masses a generation or two before the undeniable consequences of such errors become apparent to most. But late or soon, reality bites back–and then people change.
And if there’s one people whose survival deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s the people that’s proven itself particularly adept at survival–under circumstances challenging and varied.
Like this comment?
1
“The derech is narrower than a razor blade and shrinking every day.”
I’ve seen it written somewhere, that when the derech is only a half an inch wide, it’s almost impossible not to fall off….
Like this comment?
1
I was just reading about Reb Yitzchok Newton and how he hermitized himself for three years studying fluxion, or as we know it, calculus. One thing that could be said about him was that he was a real lamdan, he learned lishmo, was a genuine yiras shamayim and by many accounts was shomer nidah, since he never had sex.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
5