Not the Fucking New Yorker
Diary of an unpious editor
[Musings]
– I’m not looking to publish on blogs, he says.
– It’s not a blog, I say, it’s an online journal.
– Whatever, he says. It’s not the kind of thing I’m looking for. I mean, no offense, I think what you’re doing is great, don’t get me wrong, it’s really amazing what you’ve managed to do, and, you know, keep it going, really. Some of it, I mean, not everything, but some of it is really good.
– Well, yeah, it takes a lot of hard work.
– I’m sure it does, I’m sure it does. And you should keep it up.
– So how about submitting something? I mean, you’re a writer, you know. And this can get you a foot in the door. You can have it in your bio: Published on Unpious.
– Yeah, I know, I know. But it’s not the kind of platform I’m looking for, you understand?
I understand.
I’m browsing the rows and rows of books at the annual Yeshiva University seforim sale. He called about something else, not about Unpious, but the subject came up. And I’m more interested in finding something by Yakov Katz or David Weiss Halivni than having this conversation. I ask the fellow in the knitted yarmulke with the name tag hanging from a string around his neck for some titles. He seems knowledgeable. Yeah, we’ve had some of their stuff, he says, but we’re sold out now. It’s the last day of the sale, and I berate myself for not coming earlier. These books are hard to find, unless you want to pay a fortune to have them shipped from Israel.
– So I’m thinking to do a writing class and was wondering if you’d come, he says, oblivious to the fact that I’d just had a three-minute conversation with the YU book rep while he was speaking, and I barely heard a word he said.
– Well, I say, I’m sure the class would be interesting. I’m not sure if I have the time though.
– You could learn a lot, he says. I mean, your writing is great, don’t get me wrong. I think you have real talent. But there’s always more to learn.
He’s almost done with his MFA in Creative Writing at Columbia, half a semester to go. The most I have in formal education is an ill-conceived semester at a community college, in which they placed me in English Comp 101. The professor spent most of her time teaching us how to indent properly in Microsoft Word, and how to double-space our documents. Prior to that was my seventh-grade elementary school teacher, who taught us fractions and decimals. Nowhere close to an MFA.
I settle for a biography of Shabbtai Tzvi published by Littman, and a work on the book of Psalms by Nahum Sarna.
– Let’s be in touch, I tell him. And seriously, consider submitting something.
– Eh, he says. Whatever. It’s not my thing, you understand?
~ ~ ~
– Lower your standards, a friend says to me when I complain that I’m not getting enough submissions, and may not be able to keep it going.
We’re at a Shabbos meal at a friend’s house, with a half-empty bottle of Jameson on the table in between containers of chumus and spicy chick peas.
– You’re not the fucking New Yorker, he says.
We pour ourselves picklebacks, a weird alcoholic concoction one of our friends learned from a bartender in North Williamsburg. Bottoms up, and we shoot them down. They’re surprisingly good.
~ ~ ~
I meet a new friend at a coffee shop in Midtown. We’d been corresponding by email for a while, a friend of a friend. He’s knowledgable, surprisingly well-read for a guy with a shtuffen hit and payess tucked neatly behind his ears.
– Tsk. I don’t mean to be dismissive. But Unpious, um, lacks – how should I put it? – “sophistication.”
– Well, why don’t you write something “sophisticated” for us?
– Nah, I’m not really a writer.
~ ~ ~
– Did you see my blog post? a friend asks me at a superbowl party.
There are chicken wings from KFC in an aluminum pan on a small table, two kinds, breaded, and grilled with sweet barbecue sauce. A heavyset Chasidic guy is explaining the rules of the game to a young ex-Chasid, who looks like a shaigetz but doesn’t know anything about football. I pile wings onto a plate, both kinds, with a generous serving of cole slaw.
The friend speaking to me is from Borough Park, started a new blog and just put up his first post. An article about God and his evil ways. God, he says, told the Jews to fight the Amalekites. But God could’ve just smote them. He didn’t have to make them fight. So he’s just an evil bastard.
– Interesting point, I say.
– You can post it on Unpious, he says. I’d love to be part of a group blog.
It’s not a goddamn blog, I want to say, it’s an online journal. But I keep my mouth shut.
– It’s a good piece, I tell him instead. You know, I mean, there are some really good points there. But I’m not sure it’s the kind of piece our readership would go for.
– Oh, really? Because I thought this is, like, the kind of stuff you publish. I thought the readers would love it.
– It’s possible. But we’re aiming for a certain quality of writing– I mean, what you wrote is good stuff, not bad at all. Just, you know, needs a little polish.
Needs more than a little polish. The dude can’t write for shit. I hate to say it, but it’s crap, from the first line to the last.
The Chasidim and ex-Chasidim cheer for the latest touchdown. And the young ex-Chasid looks baffled. What happened? What happened? He asks frantically. But the heavyset guy who was explaining it to him has a wild look in his eyes, now hooked on the replay.
~ ~ ~
You’ve got to meet this guy, a friend says to me at a Lag Baomer barbeque. He’s got some ideas for Unpious.
I am left standing with a tall fellow with long hair and curly payess. Not Chasidic, never was, but he says the payess are an aesthetic thing.
I shake his hand.
– Nice to meet you, I say. Shulem.
– Same here. Yisroel.
– So… Have you seen some of our stuff?
– Yeah, he says. It’s Chasidish guys, right? You’d think they’re English majors or something. The writing’s really good.
Do I tell him how much re-writing I do? Would I seem boastful? Don’t flatter yourself, a voice inside me says. The submissions aren’t that bad, and your rewrites aren’t that good.
– I loved the piece by whatshisname, he says.
Ah, I think to myself, exactly my point. The one I practically rewrote. But I just smile and nod.
– Yeah, that was a good piece, I say.
He has some ideas about Yiddishism, and wants to write an article about it.
– Cool, I say.
My thoughts automatically turn to whether this is really stuff that interests our readership. I decide that maybe it is. I’m struggling, that’s the truth. I need submissions. It’s a one-man operation, and without material the site’s dead. We don’t pay. We’re at the mercy of those generous enough to spare some of their writing talent for no compensation except for the few commenters who might say, “Briliant post,” or “Wonderful writing.”
– I think this kind of blog is a great platform for some of the ideas I have, he says.
We’re not a fucking blog, I want to tell him. We’re an online journal. But I say nothing. I nod my head. I could use a writer like him.
~ ~ ~
A friend and I sit on the stoop outside her apartment sharing a cigarette. The pack has some Russian inscription on it. Another friend gets them online for me at two bucks a pack. We both look at the Russian inscription, and we imagine it says something like, “These are imitation Marlboro Lights. Contains surplus Soviet-era toxins used by the KGB on counter-revolutionaries. DO NOT SMOKE!” We both laugh.
– So how about something for Unpious? I ask.
A bona fide shiksa. An actual college graduate. She must have some writing skill. I’ve been asking her for weeks. She usually shrugs and says nothing. This time she doesn’t.
– I actually wrote something, she says.
I look at her surprised.
– I was going to submit it anonymously, she says. It’ll piss you off if you know it’s me.
– Fine by me. When do I get to read it.
– I don’t know, she says. I’m still not sure I want to publish it.
– You’re insecure about it.
– Maybe.
– You’re afraid we’ll reject it.
She takes a drag on the cigarette.
– Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha, she laughs. That’ll be a hoot. Rejected from Unpious.
I laugh along with her. Funny.
Printable Version
HR,
Thanks for sharing those behind-the-scenes glimpses in the life of an editor. It sounds like the role has its frustrations as well as its joys.
A few thoughts:
1. If there aren’t many submissions, it might be a perfectly fine solution to allow a few days between pieces–especially when the comment thread remains active. Even if there were a long backlog of submissions one could make the case that keeping the focus on a good piece for a few days is the way to go. After all, it’s not a news site, and literature often is better appreciated with at least a couple of days steeping time.
2. On the advice of the person who suggested lowering standards: It’s tricky, as I’m sure you know. If one isn’t getting enough high-quality submissions, and therefore publishes those of lower quality, the hoped-for submissions from better writers are less likely to be forthcoming…because better writers want to be associated with journals that maintain high standards.
3. Related to the previous point, I guess it depends on what the goals of Unpious are. If one of the goals is to provide a creative outlet for Chassidim on the fringe, then literary quality might be a secondary consideration–and the price of not attracting consistently high quality writing may have to be paid. If, on the other hand, Unpious has high literary aspirations, it may be that other prices (like for a while not having daily new pieces, and also not being able to publish some Chasidim on the fringe) will have to be paid.
4. Who the readership is, and therefore what the readership appreciates, will to a great extent, over time, be determined by the choice of what’s published. High quality pieces will, over time, attract a literary audience, which will then appreciate high-quality writing. Most people, including I would assume many Chasidim on the fringe, don’t lust after fine writing–may not even be able to discern fine writing–so much as they want something they can relate to, or that makes them laugh, etc.
So I’d think that especially toward the beginning of this enterprise, and especially because there isn’t a paying readership that might be lost, the editor might consider determining what he thinks is of interest and quality, and letting the audience that appreciates such things gather ’round.
‘Just some quick reactions to what you wrote. And thanks again for the peek behind the scenes.
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I’m doing finals this week & half of next, but after that I’ll send in a few pieces.
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How about expanding to suit a more diverse audience, like the ex/current Yeshivish community. Obviously different crowds, but a lot of commonality between them.
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VH,
I like the idea. And the current Unpious name would still fit. (And in some ways, the site has at least de facto stretched in that direction already.)
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What’s so surprising about a guy who sometimes wears a shtuffen hit being well read? In your previous life when you were educating yourself, what sort of hat were you wearing at the time?
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And just maybe submissions would be more forthcoming if the editor wouldn’t have us believe that all well written submissions underwent heavy editing. Or any editing for that matter. Some of us do know how to write, thank you very much.
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A few points:
1. Some of us have “two lives” to deal with, along with trying to get a “formal” education, late in life enough as it is, so where would we find the time to write an essay which isn’t required for school etc.?
2. Seventh grade english here too, and I oftentimes find myself wishing that I took the extra time to take some english classes before I dove into graduate school… just a note of advice to the “nexte dor”.
3. HR, having left one religion behind, is it possible that you’re now worshipping another in its stead, namely “your writing skills?”
I actually hope you don’t lower the standard on this “journal”, (and that is an additional reason I don’t try writing here), but sometimes I feel that there is more than a whiff of elitism blowing here. Quality writing is good, talking about it all the time… maybe not so. For one, it seems childish, and besides, if you have the skills, go ahead and flaunt it, but don’t for a second think that that makes you a better person than the next guy. Furthermore, I come here for the exchange of ideas, and even though I enjoy when it comes in a nice packaging, the packaging is not what pulls me here.
Just my tzvei preetas.
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Oh, and this:
1. Seforim sale at YU
2. Shabbos meal
3. Coffee shop in midtown, with a guy in a shtuffin hit
4. Lag Ba’omer barBQ
5. Superbowl party with a fat chosid
Have you really left the chassidishe world? The one instance on the stoop with the shiksa, might not have enough in itself to redeem the rest…
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Abe — I wore a bieber hit.
Truthfully, I meant little by that. I, as much as anyone, know that very often the shtuffen hit, bieber hit, or kutchma can hide what’s under it. But I do think that it often does just that — it hides what’s under it — which is why as many well-read chasidishe yingeleit as there might be, they’re often unrecognized for it.
Gigi — There was no insinuation of what you’re alluding to. But for the record, plenty of pieces — in fact, the vast majority — were wonderful as they came in. Doesn’t take away from the fact that editing for this site does sometimes require non-traditional editing.
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Kaf — Your two prittas are well taken. ‘Nuff said.
Oh — and indeed, perhaps I haven’t quite left entirely.
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HR:
Don’t listen to the naysayers: I think your editing skills are superb.
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Agreed Myopic. As has been said many times before: his command of the English language is absolutely impeccable!
But with all due respect – before lauding his editing skills, pray tell – have you seen the originals?
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Yai,
HR writes again. Unless I haven’t been following closely, your own writing hasn’t shown up here too often (comments excluded). Please keep writing
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I think part of the problem with the writting on this site is because you are the editor, HR.
Though you are talented, your style has become stale and lame. Your attempts at humor are cynical and bitter, rather than actually funny.
Most of the posts on this site read like your writings do.
I would suggest you find a new editor.
Oh, and as an aside, using the word fuck in your title, doesn’t turn mediocre writting into great writting.
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Overkill:
Wow! Harsh, don’t you think?!
HR:
There’s a strong undercurrent of frustration in your article………
My sympathies.
I would have thought that you slagging off the standard of your writers is enough to put anybody off from writing for you again, if at all. Nobody likes to be told that you had to tidy up their writing to meet “your standards”. Certainly not publicly.
If I may say, the sudden abundance of “Hasidic writers” on your site leads me to question how many of the supposedly different pens are in fact held by the same hand. Yours maybe?
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Guys, professional writers get their works edited. There is nothing condescending about tidying-up someone’s writing. Take it easy.
Why are you all so suspicious about who is writing these articles? Personally, it doesn’t matter to me who the writers are, it matters what they say.
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I believe that the best solution would be, to add a blog to the site, something like blogging.unpious.com, this will be a place where bloggers with athorized login required will be able to write articles, there will be a tab on top next to the other tabs linking to the blog, thus maintaining the high standards of the site while in the same time increasing traffic and writings. It will also be a great learning experience for writers wannabes, and when they show sufficiant writing skills you would be able to invite them to submit articles.
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I, for one, wasn’t offended by reference to the editor editing. No names were mentioned, so nobody was identified…and HR never said that all the pieces were heavily edited…just some of them. For the most part, I think people are fairly well aware of the quality of their writing. Those who badly need editing may be greatful for it, and those who don’t need it know who they are.
Indeed, my guess is that the discerning reader–the one by whom writers most want to be appreciated for their art–can usually tell whose work needed extensive help, and whose stands on its own.
What I most liked about HR’s piece was its authentic disclosure–it gave us a look at the goings-on, relative to Unpious.com, we wouldn’t ordinarily know about. And without hostility, but with some honest frustration and humor, he painted a collage of images resulting in a composite view that helps me better understand this part of his life.
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I, for one, wasn’t offended by reference to the editor editing.
How incredibly “grown-up” of you.
I guess the rest of us nitwits here will have to wait a few years to reach that level of maturity.
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Wow a lot of hate in here?! What the hell is going on?
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Kiddo, not only are you insulted by the editing, you are insulted by someone saying they aren’t offended? No one is looking down on you or anyone else. They are just saying that there is nothing at all wrong with having your work edited. How is that condescending?
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Sarah and Farchapt, I’m with you guys. The irony is that some people don’t realize how their own comments–and not others’ comments they choose to interpret over-negatively and get defensive about–are the ones that truly reflect poorly on them.
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HR, I was thinking of submitting excerpts of a novel–the problem (for me) is that I’m planning to look for an agent in the near future and I’m wondering whether publishing on Unpious may affect negatively how my material will be viewed by an agent (i.e., I fear that an agent may consider the material has already been published). What’s your take?
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I like farchapt’s idea. It doesn’t have to be on a separate blog, you can make a section on here where anyone can post pieces, random thoughts and so on. I myself have had many things I would have liked to discuss with the chevra here, but I wasn’t just gonna “start my own thread”. Maybe a forum section with threads, similar to the hyde park style would work well.
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I agree with Kafhakela. A lot of times on this site when everyone is arguing about religious opinions, and sometimes getting angry, I think we forget that we are talking to people who have opinions and ideas about other things as well. If anyone could start a thread about any topic it would be interesting to talk to the writers and readers about other things. For example I would like to know what movies Baal Devarim likes, or what books Michael P has read recently, or whether HR is into comic books. I understand that this is an online journal, but it would also just be nice to start some conversations unconnected to the entries. Does anyone else feel this way?
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Forbidden, as far as I know, your publishing an excerpt will not only not hurt your chances, but will actually help them. Many authors publish parts of their books, whether a novel, a scholarly text, or an anthology, in print or online journals before the book is published. If you’re trying to get a good agent, you’re more likely to snag her/his interest if you can boast some publishing credits. If you’re interested in names of authors who have published excerpts pre-publication, I’ll be happy to list a number.
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Sarah writes: “I would like to know what movies Baal Devarim likes, or what books Michael P has read recently, or whether HR is into comic books. I understand that this is an online journal, but it would also just be nice to start some conversations unconnected to the entries. Does anyone else feel this way?”
Sarah, I think you’re right, that a number of readers at this site would enjoy a forum or set of forums for general discussion. And if there aren’t already such forums for fringe/ex chassidim or fringe/ex yeshivishe people somewhere online, then I imagine it’ll only be a short amount of time before they do pop up.
Whether Unpious.com chooses to expand its role to accommodate that natural and inevitable activity is, of course, up to the owners/managers. From the perspective of an online journal, I could see arguments for and against it. (If the site’s primary goal is to facilitate online community for its targeted population, that leads to yes, because it offers additional ways to interact; if the primary goal is to highlight literary creativity, that tends toward no, because it waters down the focus.)
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A note on the forums question: we’ve been toying with the idea. In fact, we’ve actually had the software ready for a while, and can put it up with only a small degree of effort.
But…
One concern has been that it might detract from the main focus of the site, which is to showcase ideas and literary talent that have no outlet elsewhere.
On the other hand, it would seem like a natural expansion of a secondary purpose of this site, which is to create a community.
We will probably make a decision on this within the next few days, so stay tuned… But in the meantime, those with any thoughts on the matter, feel free to pipe in.
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Just realized, I basically echoed Michael’s thoughts on this. And which, as usual, he said it better than I could.
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I think I would enjoy a forum for general discussion. I just wish there was a way of guaranteeing that the discussions stay simple and fun.
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Maya it would be controled my a moderator, and will need to grant access to approved writers.
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So not everyone who visits the site can post in those forums? Only those who have been granted access by a moderator?
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Maya — Conceivably, there would be rules for discussion (no personal attacks, etc.) and a hands-off moderator who would only enforce when necessary. Posting would probably be allowed for all registered users.
That is… if we go ahead with it.
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Well, since you asked for opinions, here’s mine. No way should there be a forum like this on this site if you have even the slightest interest in being an “online journal.” If, however, you want this to be a CA (chassidim anonymous) support group, by all means, add that part. But don’t complain when people call it a blog.
*Just to give credit where due, it was a friend of mine who came up with the CA appelation in reference to this site. Wish it were me, though.
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“No way should there be a forum like this on this site if you have even the slightest interest in being an “online journal.””
I’m not sold on the forum idea, but I don’t see your reasoning here. Plenty of journals, news site, or what-have-you have forum sections; from Slate.com to Washington Post to LA Times. Not sure how that affects the main content.
“Wish it were me, though.”
So you find it that clever, huh?
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“Wish it were me, though.”
So you find it that clever, huh?
You gotta admit it’s witty.
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“You gotta admit it’s witty.”
Guess it depends on your standards for wittiness.
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Laura; for the folks who are okay reading a well writen article only once in two days, it might suffice leaving the status quo, but for some folks an article once every two days doesn’t do it.
P.s. my other argument of giving a chance for post chasidims writing skills to develop shouls also be taken in consideration.
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Here’s an idea to add the forum without watering down the main site.
A tab on the home page to access the forum section, and the layout and design of the forums should be entirely different than the main site. Different colors, different lettering and so on. In short, the division between the ‘journal’ and the ‘forum’ should be immediately and clealy noticeable to anyone who even takes a quick glance at the forum.
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Ah, I think to myself, exactly my point. The one I practically rewrote. But I just smile and nod.
That is not nice. Not nice at all. I am not surprised at your frustration.
Don’t despair just yet. Regardless of the names used to describe this site, it is colourful, entertaining and wonderful, isn’t it?
A worthy and reflective reputation will follow given time. A design and graphics artist might have helped though.
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My feeling is that opening a forum on THIS site may be problematic if Unpious wants to remain a (literary?) journal–not because there is only one model for an online journal but because the commentators on THIS site have not shown that their PRIMARY, or even secondary interest lies in the “art” of writing. Given the possibility of addressing “issues” on a forum, many commentators may direct their attention to what interests them at heart: the issues, the theses and counter-theses, not the quality of voice, vision, not the writing.
Some would claim that responding to specialized interest is positive (the literary would have their page; the haranguers would have their page) but I admit that I find it refreshing to come across some of the “wilder” reactions on Unpious–reactions that can be understood only if one is aware of the agenda behind them. I find it amusing, and–less serious.
It’s the same old question: focus (and presumable quality) vs diversity.
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Laura, Thanks for your reply. I’m definitely thinking about it (about posting excerpts).
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The way Unpious works now, there is an expectation that posts will respond to a primary text. This forces participants to come to terms with the thoughts of another person (the writer). Of course, not every post does this—many regurgitate what they always say but when they do so on Unpious their failure to achieve genuine understanding of another person is laid bare. On a forum, regurgitators may attract an echo chamber of others who agree with them.
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Wanna turn this into a CA? Don’t repeat any of the Haven-Not-Heaven policies. There are plenty of new errors to commit.
And you should allow more free-posting. This will get you more material with less effort. Don’t edit beyond spell-checker. It doesn’t bear your pen-name.
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Misyavni, the point was to *not* turn this journal into a CA.
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Dear HR –
I was really surprised to read what you wrote. First of all, from where I’m sitting, it seems to me like you have a lot of content. Not sure why you feel like it’s not enough, but perhaps a little zen-like patience can help you see the good. (Oh, it’s perhaps Jewish-like patience, too)
Second of all, what you’re experiencing is not necessarily about Unpious but about human nature in general. Most people don’t bother following through on what they say they’re going to do. Add to that the fact that writing is exposure and scary, and of course you’re going to encounter people not submitting. All news sites have that problem, I’ll bet. I mean, I write for the Forward Sisterhood, and I have asked a dozen women I know — smart, feminist, writing women — to submit, and they can and they should but they don’t. It’s human nature. We don’t follow through. Especially when there are emotional blocks like the fear of exposing oneself to the world.
Finally, I would like to concur with someone above who suggested that you expand to the entire Orthodox world, not just the chassidishe world. It would add an interesting fabric to the discussion.
B’vracha,
Elana
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I came across this quote from George Orwell, in “Politics and the English language”, 1946, and I thought it has some relevance here.
I am going to translate a passage of good English into modern English of the worst sort. Here is a well-known verse from Ecclesiastes:
I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
Here it is in modern English:
Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compel the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.
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“We’re at the mercy of those generous enough to spare some of their writing talent for no compensation except for the few commenters who might say, “Briliant post,” or “Wonderful writing.” Ah, caught you! Brilliant has two l’s. But yes, brilliant post.
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I think one think that is a bit unclear is whether this is a site for Chasidim on the fringe, or a site for ex-chasidim. As I’m sure you know, the two groups, while similar, have rather different attitudes. You might need to think about what the true purpose of this blog is. Perhaps it is good to have both, but if that is the case, make the deliberate purpose be for both, rather than leaving it a little hazy.
It’s a great site, though!
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