Comments on: The Self-fulfilling Prophecies of the Ex-Hasid

By: filipino brides

filipino brides — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:36:04 +0000

I bet I know why you couldn’t do devotions with a member of the opposite sexhow did they know you weren’t reading Song of Solomon together?

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By: RW

RW — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:27:55 +0000

“I would be another mainstream Conservative Jew and my kids or grandkids would eventually assimilate. ”

This is bullshit that they tell you to keep you in line and keep you from having contact with other kinds of Jews and with non-Jews. In reality, not living in a totally insular Jewish community allows people the OPTION to reject a Jewish identity without being totally cut off from their family and community they grew up in. However, it is very rare for a non-orthodox Jew to convert to another religion.

Most people raised as non-orthodox Jews stay Jewish in their identity, observe some Jewish holidays, and otherwise behave like Jews in some respects, even if they don’t belong to a synagogue to get counted in affiliation statistics. Even those raised utterly ignorant of anything about Judaism often feel drawn to learn more and become more observant as adults. This is well-documented among Jews from formerly communist countries.

I’m sick of this superior attitude about how the orthodox “guarantee” Jewish continuity for their children. I don’t see anything good about scaring and guilt-tripping people into staying in a community, where they waste their time on rituals they don’t believe in, fake their piety and hide their true thoughts, and have a miserable life where they feel like nobody knows their true self. Wouldn’t you rather your child was a happy Conservative or Reform Jew who enjoyed being Jewish even if they didn’t do all the mitzvot that they used to? Wouldn’t you rather your child was happy being secular or even in another religion, than miserable as an unbelieving Hasid?

If it were true that each generation assimilates more than the previous, then non-orthodox Jewish communities would need a constant influx of previously orthodox Jews joining them. In reality that kind of member is unusual. And if it were true, it would give the lie to the belief that being orthodox guarantees that your children will stay orthodox. Logically, you can’t believe in both kinds of your superiority!

I have to go back four generations in my family to find somebody who was a committed orthodox Jew. In fact both generations before me intermarried, so that I actually only have one Jewish grandparent. Nevertheless I was brought up to be Jewish, I remain Jewish in identity and observance (although I am not according to halachah), I married another non-orthodox Jew, and we will raise our children to be Jewish according to our (non-orthodox) ideas of what that means. We continue to be Jewish solely for positive reasons, not from fear or guilt. I think it does a pretty good job of producing continuity.

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By: Sarah J

Sarah J — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 22:08:39 +0000

Karen,

The hubris of your “earnest plea” is galling.

Do you think the brilliant words of your PhD thesis are going to strike deep down in Sam’s little lost soul and save him? Wow.

Your comment implies that Sam hasn’t thought his choices through, or learned Jewish philosophy or understood “the way of Hashem”. If you read any of Sam’s pieces on this site (let alone met him in person), you’d see that’s he’s a thoughtful, honest, brilliant man who has explored his choices with far more intelligence and insight than you display in your argument (?) for Sam to “find a way to Hashem that will let (his) soul sing”.

If you want to have any chance of successfully engaging with anyone who has left the religious community (let alone Sam), you might want to loosen up on the baby talk and try some logic. You would think that wouldn’t be too hard for you – after all – YOU have a Phd.

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By: karen tessler

karen tessler — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 20:09:27 +0000

Dear Samual,
I heard your story on NPR yesterday and it almost made me weep. Lechtige neshume, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. I am an orthodox woman form Boro Park. I have my Ph.D. from Northwestern University in Illinois. I have learned and I have done research and I have written a thesis. I began my dissertation on learning and sensory control of motor movement with the words: “How great are your deeds, G-d; exceedingly profound are your thoughts” Psalm 92:6. Every knowledge on this earth is fleeting and subject to change except the eternal truth of Torah’s wisdom. Your soul wants to grow and fly. Get educated, learn about the world around you, see a show, watch an enlightening movie – but don’t discriminate. Also learn with depth and mature wisdom the truths in the books you have on your bookshelf. Seek out works by Akiva Tatz, Aryeh Kaplan, Aryeh Carmel to help open your heart and mind. There are “shivim drachim”. The way of your upbringing didn’t work for you. Find the way to Hashem that will let your soul sing. I send you wishes for hatzlacha and much love from a fellow jew in your long journey ahead.

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By: Motele

Motele — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:07:59 +0000

So here I am an ex Chasid who became Litvish. I dont wear the garb but practice Orthodox Judaism a la Agudah for now although I would be more comfortable in Young Israel or even Conservadox if I can find a Conservative shul that is more Orthodox-like.
I had the urge to throw it all away when I started college, the beginning of my rebellion, but didnt have the courage of my convictions or the chutzpah/cold heartedness to hurt my Holocaust surviving parents. So I sublimated and compromised.
The day I started College, my mother called me in for a private conversations. “Uber di gleibst noch in Gut?” she asked me. That floored me. I was going to college to learn a profession so I could escape the poverty and paucity and miserliness and that made me an atheist?
Anyway, I survived college staying Frum although I began to taste the forbidden fruits of the opposite sex and lost my virginity to a non Frum Jewish girl in a sorority flop house at the age of 20. I thought it was love, but it was only the poignant taste of sex and lust that masqueraded as love.
Flash forward 35 years. Married, kids, grand kids and frum throughout with much Yiddish nachas given to my parents and community. Successful career, brilliant at times, but i feel like Im living in 2 worlds and sometimes the other world pulls me. The world of work amongst Goyim who know little of my inner struggles and who dont know my Chassidish background because Im too private to share it.
If I had gone OTD 35 years ago, I would be another mainstream Conservative Jew and my kids or grandkids would eventually assimilate. That would bother me greatly. Staying Frum, although sometimes painful, means that , at least in my lifetime, the Chain from Sinai remains unbroken. Small price to pay and the right choice in the great scheme of things.
What worked for me if having the work life where I could eat fish in restaurants with clients, not wear a Yarmulke, talk sports and current events with intelligent people, and yet go home to my warm Frum home.
My wife resents me for it and it has lately caused problems in Sholem Bayis. But she doesnt see the Big picture.
Luck to you in your choice.

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By: Dovy

Dovy — Fri, 08 Jul 2011 05:27:32 +0000

Incredible IMAX footage of Israel:
http://vimeo.com/15034110

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By: Ben Zmani

Ben Zmani — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:55:29 +0000

As you mention early on in the article humans are a tribal species. We naturally congregate around those with whom we share a certain identity. That ex-Hasidim (chareidim) congregate with each other is not surprising. To identify is a basic human need and one that allows us to see the power within ourselves through the mirror of another.

The issue you seem to be bewailing is that the victim identity is perhaps given more shrift than is helpful. What is it about being an ex-hasid that encourages this victim mentality. Where is the empowerment of the 2nd 3rd gen feminists you mention to be found within the ex-hasid community.

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By: Yitzy

Yitzy — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:13:40 +0000

Great post.

Just the fact that you were able to write up such a great article shows you have come a long way.

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By: Arthur Kaye

Arthur Kaye — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:15:20 +0000

Reading this essay, it occurred to me there are similarities in both directions on the road in and out of chasidism. Friends of mine who are baal teshuva – some of them, not all – have told me they feel like they are between worlds, no longer “secular,” but also not fully accepted in the communities they have joined.

And what would be wrong with calling ex-chasids BT?

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By: fluffykneidle

fluffykneidle — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:17:44 +0000

Extremely well thought out, and well written too.

A problem that faces ex chasidim is that they have grown up with a mentality of ‘gimme’ which is hard to shake when they leave. How can you not feel like a victim when you are a child of holocaust survivors, when the authorities are the enemy, every speeding ticket is anti semitic, and you learn to speak English only to ensure that ‘the shtut don’t ganef a few pennies from you’.

Yes, Obama managed to win his presidency campaign because he shook off the cloak of victimization. Chasidim might be a lot happier if they could too, never mind ex chasidim.

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