In Conversation
An Interview With Chani Getter
Chani Getter grew up in the Nikolsburg Hasidic sect in Monsey NY. At 17 she was married, and shortly after, had three children. At the age of 23, Chani divorced and began to pursue a career.
Today, at the age of 34, Chani is a leader in the fields of personal growth and spiritual development. She has led informational and support groups in parenting, single-motherhood, domestic violence, cross-cultural integration, issues of sexuality and identity. Click here to visit Chani’s website.
Your personal journey is an inspirational story. How did you survive?
1) Tremendous belief and love in God. 2) A great therapist. 3) Strong willpower.
How does it feel to forsake a loving warm tight knit community for the big world?
I found warm people – great communities and although not one of them can take the place of what I had, I have come to learn that being a part of the few that speak to my heart create a community that works for me.
How did you become a professional psychologist?
I am not a psychologist, nor do I want to be – although it is an honorable profession. I am a Life Coach – which is a little different. And I am studying to become a Rabbi.
I took classes at night and woke up every day at 4:00am to study from 4:00 – 6:00am – It took me a while but I got my bachelors. then I went to the New York Open Center on Sundays and got my Coaching Degree, and now I am very slowly taking courses to become a Rabbi.
So many who leave their communities feel discouraged or broken. How did you overcome so much negativity?
Again, I loved myself a lot – and I knew that I wanted to give my children a good mother and so I behaved accordingly, but mostly I think it is because I carry Spirit (Hashem) inside of me, and I had a good therapist.
Are you happier now than when you were part of the Hasidic community?
Yes – I am also a lot older – so the question is really am I glad I made the decisions I made since I was 23 – and the answer is yes, every decision brought me to where I am – and I am grateful for that.
Do you ever think of coming back to the way of life of your parents?
No.
Any regrets? How do you deal with regret?
No – just questions and concerns. Sometimes with regard to the way my children view Chassidim. But I think that has more to do with the very few Chasidim they know, and lump ALL Chassidim in with them, which is sad.
I know that I have a choice and I can always take a step back – so when I do something I don’t like or regret – I don’t do it again. It is that simple. Nothing is written in stone, and so if I regret something, I own it, say to myself – hey Chani you don’t really like this and then I stop doing it or don’t do it again.
What can be done about bitterness and anger?
The only way to get over pain and hurt is to go through it. To walk with someone who cares. A therapist or coach or a trusted someone. To allow oneself to be in the pain, to work through it. It may take weeks, months and sometimes a year or two – but it can be worked through if you allow yourself to fully feel it, to experience it, and to allow someone to witness you in it.
For those who feel they don’t fit in, due to choice or circumstance, can you offer some peace?
You are perfect just the way you are. Every person looks different, smells different, acts different. This is because we are MEANT to be different. Cherish who you are, that there was no one like you here in the world yet, and there never will be, you have a mission in this world, and no one can do it but you. So enjoy your uniqueness.
As parents we sacrifice our own way of life for our kids. Sometimes we feel we don’t do enough. How do you as a parent feel about this?
Being a parent is the most difficult task in the world and it does not come with a handbook. So we all try and we all fail sometimes. Try to be consistent, that is what the kids need. Try to really listen to them when they speak, and give them permission to be who they were meant to be in the world. Parenting is a balancing act.
A human must have friendships. But life for Hasidim may be lonely when they try to get out of their Hasidic society. How do you recommend they fit in?
Take English classes – look around at what people are wearing and figure out your style – it will take time. Know that it takes time and be patient with the process.
There is a greater hurt when you are around people and you feel lonely then when you are in your own presence and are alone.
Faith plays a integral role in Hasidic life. A lot of us, once we leave our upbringing, may throw the baby out with the bath water. What can you say as a motivation to maintaining a sense of faith?
Just because the way Judaism and God was presented to you and it didn’t work, doesn’t mean that you can’t take God and figure out what He / She / It is for you and how you can connect to the vastness of the Universe and the Spirit that lays underneath it.
As Hasidim, we may hide our true identities, but sometimes we cannot hold back and we stand out, suffering the shunning of the community. Is that a good thing?
Every person needs to answer this for themselves. It is an individual struggle. For me – I need to be who I am – and I just live my life. Not pointing fingers at anyone – just grateful for who I am and who I continue to becoming.
Some Hasidim who are hurting fall into drugs, sex and alcohol to silence our pain, rather than seek out professional help due to shame or lack of money. What can you say to stop this destructive cycle?
If you are drinking and or using drugs then the best thing for you is to go to a 12 step meeting either AA or NA which stand for Alcholics Anonymous – and for $1 a meeting you can get a lot of help. With regard to therapy – their are organizations that you can help you – they have clinics that take insurance and/or $25 per session and you can find some really good people working there.
The reason people stop therapy or don’t continue is usually not because it doesn’t work but because it does – and they will need to change if they continue on this cycle. It is terrifying to change – it is threatening and it takes courage. My motivation for you is that others have done it and you can to. You have to figure out who God is for YOU – what SIN is for you and become your own person – otherwise you will continue to be in pain and hurt yourself as well as those around you. It does not help anyone. Not your children, your wife or your family! If you don’t do it for yourself – do it for them.
Printable Version
Thank you.
Since first learning of Chani a few years ago I have always been fascinated by her life story and decisions. Yasher Koach to you Chani! Shetelchi mchayil el choyil!
I would respectfully have asked her this:
What motivated you to realize that your life was “wrong”? Was there any specific issue or issues with Frum/Chassidish life that was so unbearable that you needed to break out to fix?
Like this comment?
2
This is interesting and helpful.
I would like to also know how Chani relates to her family, how they treat her and how she treats them, if they have contact at all, and whether they do or dont speak, how she feels about it and deals with it.
Like this comment?
1
To the above comment, I think her personal life should be respected. she decided to move on, evidently she had her reasons, lets all take away of this interview our own personal strength she has shown us. If she can do it so can I!
Each and every one of us, has their unique personal journey, but i really am grateful to Chani that she has opened up and shared with us a bit of her heroic story. May she see allot of Yiddish Nachas from her children.
I would like to link to the links in Yiddish where this same interview appeared a few months ago, for some like me with Yiddish as their first language you may enjoy it and learn alot better the Chizuk from it.
http://www.yiddishfarmblog.org/?p=763
Like this comment?
3
Leaving Chassidism is no big deal. Leaving Torah life entirely is a tragedy.
It sounds like she is still Shomer Mitzvos.
If that’s the case then all is fine and I hope she is a great success.
Like this comment?
1
[...] דערהײַנטיגונג: דער חסידישער דזשורנאַל װעבזײַטל „אָן־פּיאות“ האָט פֿאַרעפֿטלעכט אונדזער אינטערװיו מיט חני געטער פֿאַר ענגליש רעדנדע חס… [...]
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker, For one to leave Torah life is a wonderful blessing. The relic of ancient superstitions is nothing more than a curse upon humanity. Religion is poison. God is humanity’s infantile security blanket at best, and an excuse for depraved behavior at worst.
I wish you the blessings of a life of true freedom, unchained from the shackles of neo-paganism, a/k/a Halachic Judaism.
Like this comment?
3
Some people prefer to immerse themselves in religion, some do fine without it. I think people should just go out and live a life that’s wholesome and fulfilling, whether they find meaning in “faith” or “science.” Or both — or none.
Live and let live, people. Who wants to read this back-and-forth banter all the time? I come to this site to read pieces that are personal, insightful, and incisive (which they generally are), not to stumble upon comments where people bump their heads together in a non-constructive, antagonistic manner. It hasn’t really happened here yet, but it’s happened elsewhere.
So let’s just put that aside and be happy that there’s a brave woman out there who left the fold, but is forging her own path and identity.
Go Chani! I wish you all the best.
Like this comment?
4
the reason she left is because she is a lesbian (You can google it) Its also obvious from the picture of her.
that choice of lifestyle is not compatible with being a hassid.
Her children do go to an orthodox school surprisingly , She keeps Shabbos and Kosher
Like this comment?
2
Wow. She’s even more inspiring a person than I realized! I did find the article(s) to which Anonymous is referring.
English: http://www.forward.com/articles/113747/
Yiddish: http://yiddish.forward.com/node/2235
I must admit that I didn’t look at her picture and think “LESBIAN,” but that’s just me. Extra kudos to her for taking a tradition and lifestyle that would normally condemn her and making it her own.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
5
I will have to give the interviewer an “F” for this interview. To have missed her sexual orentation is a huge failure. This is who she is. She is open about it (I would not bring this up if she was in the closet)
With 1% of the population gay, and about 500,000 Hassidim. that would make at least 5,000 gay Hassidic jews.
How many of them are either suffering or leave the fold.
I would have asked
What is your relationship with your family now?
do you have any advice for Hassidim who think they might be gay or lesbian.
How do you merge your orentation with the very anti-homosexual bias of the religious community.
Like this comment?
2
Anyone who can be proud of this is so lost and confused that I hate to say it but there almost no hope. Can there be anything more foolish than this? The praising of low behavior as heroic? Big deal she has these tendencies. No one said you have to act on them. She ruined her life for this??
I challenge Hasidic Rebel to remove this article at once. Please remember Pirkei Avos-”Whoever influences the masses”…I am sure you know the rest. Dont be such a michutzof and think you know more than them. Pull down this website and start to do teshuvah with every ounce of your being. Perhaps with the incredible kindness of Hashem it will be accepted.
With loving concern for you and all of Klal Yisroel
EMES
Like this comment?
1
It is very heroic, Do not take it down
How many others are suffering for this.
And what about others affected for this, like her ex-husband and children and her family.
Can you imagine how her ex-husband must feel. They were married young and did not know.
How about her children, Can they tell their friends about their mother ?
She has been able to make the best of her situation
Like this comment?
1
If HR is indeed reading these comments of ER’s I would ask that he remove ER’s comments and those bearing his IP address. They are becoming more obsessive and venomous with each post. We have enough of his ilk in the real world, not here please. He is just another classic troll.
Others too, do not feed the trolls.
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker — Your challenge is rejected. Your comments over the past several days show an abhorrent lack of civility, and I ask that you conduct yourself with respect towards the writers and readers of this site, or you will be asked to stop commenting.
This website isn’t for people like you. If you find the content objectionable, perhaps you’d like to stop visiting. If you want to engage in a thoughtful and respectful way, to ask honest questions, to seek to understand rather than accuse and condemn, you are perfectly welcome. But the intolerance you keep spewing is not looked upon kindly.
I hope you’ll take this in the spirit of constructive engagement, and that you might one day understand — if not fully appreciate — the motivations and aspirations of the people for whom this site is intended.
If you would like to discuss this or any other matter privately, you are welcome to do so. My email can be found on the site’s “About” page.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
8
Oh I see, silence those who disagree with you.
How progressive minded of you.
Of course its really not your fault as since you believe in evolution you are doing quite well for a highly developed mutation of a former earthworm under a rock.
Seems like there are some absolute truths in your life after all. Those who speak up for Torah values are wrong. Those who have the courage to fight their Yetzer hara are weak.
Gosh you are starting to sound quite fundamentalist. Are you sure you are not just the inverse of me?
C’mon Hasidic Rebel–You can do so much better than this. Lets have your real name so we can properly daven for you.
Please take down this site. You are hurting people and not helping. You filling the world with more darkness not light.
Lets bring great light, joy to the world.
May G-d bless you with moral clarity.
With love,
EMES
Like this comment?
2
Emes Rocker – I davka did not put on tefillin yesterday, nor did I daven, and I made a special ‘l’shem pirud’ on my abandonment of the mitzvah, informing the pamalia shel maalo that I was doing it because of your closed-mindedness and fundamentalism.
Think about how many people you’re turning off, and how many aveiros you’re responsible for!
Like this comment?
2
If someone like me is turning you off there is no hope for you anyway and the Jewish people are better off without you. Your a simple rasha to write such a lie in public and we already have enough of them in our midst. You would have been stuck in Mitzrayim with the other 80%. Why don’t you go become a reform rabbi?
Like this comment?
1
Its a shame people are arguing with a troll and there are suffering Gay and Lesbian Hasidics out there.
They likely do not know where to go
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker, you crack me up and depress me at the same time. If you were sensible, you’d take Hasidic Rebel’s suggestions to heart. Since you object to this site and the community to which it’s giving a voice, then stop showing your face. No one’s forcing you to be here, and frankly everyone would be better off.
Actually, I have a better suggestion for everybody. Don’t feed the troll. If Emes Rocker doesn’t have anyone to interact with, he might go away.
Like this comment?
1
Here are some thoughts on the reverse bigotry that good old fashioned Torah folk on this site are facing. HR is trying to lynch his own people.
The night is black,
Without a moon.
The air is thick and still.
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill.
Features distorted in the flickering light,
The faces are twisted and grotesque.
Silent and stern in the sweltering night,
The mob moves like demons possessed.
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right,
Confident their ways are best.
The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will.
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill.
Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear
Walk hand in hand.
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker, I read in one of your posts that you are here trying to help people.
You are not, in fact, helping anyone. The resentment people have towards your presence here is quite palpable, and you are likely pushing them further away from frumkeit.
Instead of attempting to understand why people would leave the world you find so much meaning and fulfillment in, you chide them to return- all the while reminding them of the very reasons they left. Meaning and fulfillment are subjective experiences, and just because you have found them in Orthodox Judaism doesnt mean that everyone else has as well. In fact, I have been Orthodox all my life and know plenty of practicing frum people who do not find fulfillment in what they do. (to this, you would probably respond “that’s probably because they don’t do it right,” which is an unfalsifiable statement).
Seriouly, the best way you can help is to say tehillim and learn torah in the hopes that they return. If not, maybe try borrowing a page from any good kiruv organizations’s playbook: kugel, cholent, carlebach, and unconditional acceptance.
Like this comment?
1
>Oh I see, silence those who disagree with you…
Emes Rocker, it’s not that we’re looking to stifle dissent and debate. It’s just that this specific site is not a forum for debate on the issues you’re trying to address.
Like this comment?
1
>Its also obvious from the picture of her.
What?? How can you tell from a picture? what possible clue
could there be.
Like this comment?
1
Her Hairstyle mostly
Like this comment?
1
anon – so everyone with a beard is a yid, everyone carrying a baby is a mother, nu?
So pathetic and backward you are. I suppose the chosid women, shaven under their shaitels, are super lesbians, huh?
I am a gay woman with long, real hair. Shock horror I even wear skirts!
Like this comment?
4
You cant tell 100%, but it does give a strong indication
I know plenty of gays and lesbians and they purposely make a certain look so other gays and lesbians know that they are gays and lesbian.
@no light, Yes they are lesbians with long hair who wear makeup, skirts heels etc. They are called Lipstick lesbians. They exist, but they are the minority. Many Lesbians go for the more Butch look
Like this comment?
1
oh ammo you are so wrong. butch lesbians are very much in a minority, it’s just that they are more visible. the ‘lipstick lesbians’ is a media invention, to try to explain away femme lesbians as a fashion or fad, but in reality we gay women look like everyone else. in more backward areas ki you will find butch women because they often. try to pass as a male/female couple to avoid harassment. but trust me, as a 40 year old gay woman I can assure you I know more about what ‘we’ look like than some young bochur does.
Like this comment?
4
I am not a young bochur and never was one. and actually I am quite wordly.
I have known more gays and lesbians than you think and except for one person (A best friend no less) my gaydar works fairly well.
My best friend honestly had me totally fooled, at the time he was closeted, but now he is out of the closet and its quite obvious. he is gay.
Perhaps you are closeted, I dont know, Chani is out of the closet and very open about her sexuality
Like this comment?
1
About going to AA meetings, some people in her old community might feel more comfortable going to a JACS meetings first, which is made up of Jews in recovery, conducting basically the same types of meetings. From that point, it is easier to go to an AA or NA, or many other types of A meetings. Most of AA take place in churches, and this can be a turnoff or one could say an easy excuse not to go. they take place in the basement or a side room, not in the religious room itself, but i have heard anecdotally that this prevents people from going, although clearly it is a case of Pikuach nefesh.
Like this comment?
1
You can tell from her hairstyle that she’s a lesbian? That is amazing. Tell us how you determined this. I can tell from your comment that you are a shmuck because only a shmuck would make a comment like that.
Like this comment?
2
It’s so interesting that Chani forgot to mention any of the pain and suffering she put her family and kids through.
Chani is just very disturbed individual and unfortunately she took 3 innocent children along the misery ride
Like this comment?
1
EmesRocker
I take tremendous offense and umbrage to everything you write here. As a baal tshuva, I find you to be infinitely more respulsive than any of the unfortunate lost souls in the entirre ‘unpious’ conundrum.
If you possessed a miniscule drop of chochmas Torah and Yiras Shomayim you would be able to write something meaningful here, that with siyata d shomaya would possibly influence one person to think for one second. But instead you have chosen to just spew stupidity and be the most vile evil creature here.
If someone is a skilled cardiologist he can save someone’s life, if he is just an ignorant laborer he will kill the patient.
Please stop being a rotzeach.. ER…
Like this comment?
3
Today, I am a straight, male atheist. I also know more torah than any other Jew alive today.
No Gadol would agree with me, but if I was an orthodox Rabbi, I would say this about homosexuality.
Our Gadolim have come up with all kinds of Heters which are not really legitimate. They give Jews a Heter to charge fellow Jews interest. They allow Jewish owned businesses to operate on Shabbos. These heters use kuntzem. Gedolim allow Jews to sell their businesses on Pesach to non-Jews even though they know that the sale of their business is really not legal or binding. This also is not a valid heter.
The Great Sanhedren murdered bar Kamtza. Gedolim make mistakes. They are not infallible, just like Moshe Rabbainu was not infallible.
HaShem does not ask Jews to do what they can’t do. Homosexuals for the most part cannot refrain from acting on their desires. Hence it is permitted to them. Moreover, even if it wasn’t permitted to them, it would be better for them to believe it was permitted because then their conduct would be showgeg.
Any rav who poseks homosexuality is issur, commits an issur dereissah. He violates the positive command: v’ahvatah lereiecha k’mocha. If you loved your fellow Jew as much as you love yourself, you would not issue a pasak din you knew they could not follow. Modern medicine teaches homosexuals cannot control their behavior. Jewish Rabbanim are obligated to follow the findings of modern medicine.
Better for homosexuals to transgress against one command without their knowledge than willfully transgress against all commandments.
Jews will not reveal the Moshiach through their tzidkus, because no Jew can withstand HaShem’s judgment. There is no Jew without chait.
If Jews wish to reveal the Moshiach they must elicit His midos of chesed, rachmones, and sleechos. Midah keneged Midah. Hashem judges yidden the exact same way they judge others.
The face reflected in a pond of water is the face that looks into it.
On the second day of creation Hashem created sentient life. He divided water into waters above and waters below. (There is no water but kindness. And living water is water that is connected to its source.)
When Jews arouse waters below, when they express the Midah of loving kindness below, they elicit the Midah of loving kindness above. When they cry watery tears below on behalf of others, they elict HaShem’s tears. Tears are water, and water is loving-kindness, and forgiveness.
When Jews ask HaShem to judge them based on their behavior they are judged by the King of Kings. When Jews ask HaShem not to judge them on their righteousness, but on His infinite mercy they are judged by their Father in Heaven.
“Or Ein Sof” has the power not just to forgive all sins, but the power to make them as if they never occurred. A loving Father sees no fault in children, no matter how evil they are.
The Moshiach will only be revealed when Jews engage in acts of gratuitous kindness, when they stop judging each other, when they forgive each other, when they love each other as much as they love themselves.
You cannot believe in the achdus of HaShem if you do not see part of you is in every Jew, and part of every Jew is in you, and HaShem is in everything.
The Moshiach will come when Jews say, “What is yours is yours, and what is mine is yours.” That is what it means to be a true chossid, when one Jew is willing foresake his share in the world to come, to give Jews he despises a place in the world to come.
Jews are judged by the weight of the heavenly yoke placed on their shoulders. It is better for Jews to accept they have sinned and seek forgiveness, then deny they have sinned. No matter how many times you sin, HaShem will forgive you, if you earnestly ask forgiveness. If you do not believe this, you do not believe in HaShem’s torah.
You have more to worry about the sin you commit against your fellow man, because you can only be forgiven if your fellow man forgives you.
If you were to place a homosexual on one side of a balance, and this homosexual offered the following prayer to G-d every day, “Forgive me, Master of the World, I have sinned. Please forgive me. Please take this desire away from me so I no longer sin against you,” he would outweigh all the tzaddikem and gedolim placed on the other side of the scale.
HaShem does not expect homosexuals to not act on their desires. HaShem tells us not to judge others, that only He knows what is in man’s hearts, only He knows the yoke placed on each Jews shoulders.
The Great Sanhedrin murdered bar Kamtza. The Talmud teaches embarrassment is equal to murder. The Talmud teaches a rabbi who can stop a murder, but does not do so is more guilty than the dumb person who committed the murder. It was the gratuitous hatred of the Great Sanhedren toward bar Kamtza that caused the destruction of the second Temple and galus. Only gratuitous, unconditional love for one’s fellow Jew and chassedi umos haolem will end galus.
A Jew who can not prevent himself from committing issur dereissah because he is mentally ill is Putter. Homosexuals are likewise Putter because they have a mental illness which for the most part they cannot control.
Modern psychiatry recognizes homosexuality as a mental illness. It was removed from the DSM-III because it has no cure. Psychiatrists recognized it would harm homosexuals more if they correctly classified homosexuality as an illness. Most psychiatrists who voted to remove it as a recognized illness did so not because they did not think it was an illness, but rather because they realized it would not benefit anyone to keep it classified as an illness.
As long as Jews mock homosexuals, the mentally ill, alcoholics, etc. they block the revelation of the Moshiach.
Like this comment?
1
I wish to make friends with former orthodox Jews. Email me at advanpropcons at aol dot com
Thanks.
United we stand, divided we fall.
Like this comment?
1