Advice Column
It’s All Kosher (No. 2): Bored and Lonely
I’m a young guy formerly Hasidic. I’m lonely and bored in my new secular life. I go to Footsteps and hang out at chullent but I still find myself in my apartment Saturday night or Sunday lonely and getting increasingly depressed. What can I do?
Bored
Dearest Bored,
So you live in an apartment somewhere out in the big velt. Maybe you live alone, maybe you live with roommates. But either way, I’m sure it is a lot less hectic than it was when you lived in the frum world where your schedule was dictated by countless religious obligations. You no longer live in a yeshiva dorm where they chase you into bed at dusk, or with parents who chase you out of bed at dawn, or with a few babies of your own who wouldn’t let you sleep at all. You left the very structured lifestyle that kept you occupied with family responsibilities and innumerous rituals. In your past, there were weekly shabbes meals, daily mikvahs, nightly simchas, thrice daily prayers, hourly brochos and a whole community of ‘good’ people who never left you alone.
Now you’re not bound to any of it. You’re can do whatever you want to do with your time.
There’s a thrill to that, but it’s also a very new and overwhelming challenge. Here you are, with all the time and freedom you dreamt of. But freedom doesn’t guarantee your fulfillment; it only gives you the opportunity to go after it. Filling your life with engaging and satisfying things requires a lot of effort. Think of it as a “process” that you’ll work on over time. Don’t sit around passively expecting someone to hand you a schedule. But don’t overextend yourself either, by constantly looking for distractions to fill the emptiness. I know that some people expect you to be happy and fulfilled immediately when you leave, as if now that you left the challenges are over. But have them know that here fulfillment isn’t offered on the McDonald’s fast-food menu. You cannot expect the social circle, good job and partner to come together in a day. While you slowly adjust, allow yourself to be lonely and bored at times.
A word of caution: Many who leave are tempted to huddle together to soothe that loneliness; they gather to eat Hasidic foods and recreate the comforting patterns of the past. Do that once in a while– it’s fun and it’s good to stay connected with the culture you’re from. But don’t make it the answer to your problem of boredom and loneliness. You risk getting stuck in a halfway house mid-journey, in a kretchma of sorts, where you sit around with your baggage and nurse the wearied person of your past. But remember that you’re not only the person you were, you are also who you could be. You can grow from your past, beyond it, into a content, dynamic secular individual.
Go on with the journey; you already came so far.
The next step is focus on developing your individuality. Learn more about yourself. Explore yourself. Get to know the person you are outside of your religious background. Find your likes, dislikes, passions and inner strengths. What makes you feel good, stimulates you and betters you? Are you drawn to art, academia, culture, nature, spirituality, sports or drama? Are you good at cooking a special dish, creating a type of art, performing in a sport? What can lift you up when you’re lonely or having a rough day?
Start a list with these answers and keep a few copies at various handy places. Add items to the list as you discover different things that intrigue you. The things on the list can be absolutely anything that strikes your fancy. Think outside the box. Expand your horizons and look beyond the activities your friends are doing. Something piques your interest? Google it and see if it draws you in. Go to www.findmyhobby.com for ideas; looking through the limitless list of hobbies on that site can be a hobby in its own right. You can even take a hobby quiz on CNN at http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/leisure/quiz/index.html.
Follow up on these interests by exploring them one item on the list at a time. Learn more about the activity, try it and seek out like-minded people. A good way to meet other people is by joining a club, a class or a meetup. People with a common interest often make the most loyal and engaging friends. Don’t think you’re different or that you don’t belong at these clubs. I know it’s easy to feel like a misfit among the unreligious. But once you get to know the people you will realize that you’re just very much like everyone else. You too can bring to a friendship the same loyalty and cheer you receive.
As you will learn about yourself and meet different people, you will become increasingly busy with new and amazing experiences. Time will pass too quickly, leaving you with many memories in its wake.
Best of luck,
The Unpious Posek
The Unpious Posek welcomes your queries on all matters of impiety, via posek@unpious.com.
Printable Version
How about telling us where in this velt you live. Most places have stuff to do and people to meet. Those don’t demand that you go somewhere else. I know that this prospect scares the life out of you, but you need to find the right places and the right things.
Like this comment?
1
try meetup.com
Like this comment?
2
From the atheistic point of view, life stinks and then you die. There really is no way to put a good face on that.
Like this comment?
1
You must be missing the social dimension of orthodox life. There is really no replacement I think. Even if you don’t believe the dogmas of Judaism ( I don’t ) it is impossible to deny utility of having to sit down with your family and friends on Shabbos. There is no context to replace little chit chat before and after the boring shiur on Shabbos. You will unlikely find th same kind of company of well meaning (and maybe blissfuly ignorant) people who are not there to put you down with their snarky remarks. You will not find a family life more beautiful than that provided by Judaism structure.
In any case that’s what I realized after years of bumping my head against the wall.
And what will you miss out on if you live Jewish lifestyle?
TV, shmutz, bacon, crab?
Find a different compromise. Reflect upon what you like about orthodox experience and stick to it. It does not have to be an all or nothing proposition. I have discovered this a couple of years ago and am enjoying life like never before.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
5
“From the atheistic point of view, life stinks and then you die”
typical. strawman.
Like this comment?
1
Of course you are bored. Did you think the secular world was so exciting? It is lonely for most people. Why do you think most cable TV packages now offer well over 100 channels?
That is why Yidden go to shul three times a day. Even if you are not the most social type you are forced to be with people three times a day. In most secular neighborhoods people do not even know their own neighbors. They hardly ever see their neighbors. In most good frum neighborhoods everyone knows everyone, everyone is going to each others Kiddishes, simchas, making meals for new mothers, babysitting everyone’s kids. There are gemachs for almost everything a person could ever need. There are shiurim and constant intellectual stimulation. There is singing, dancing and it never ends.
The secular world is all about ME. ME can get very lonely. The Torah world is about US. US is never lonely. WE daven in the plural. We are an AM ECHAD. If you live Torah properly you will never be bored.
I have been there. I have seen the secular world and spent time with many of its leaders. Hopefully one day you will realize that if you crave LIFE you should surround yourself with good Yidden.
Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night
Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory
of the Yiddishe taam of a friday night.
Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
But the secular world has no charms to soothe
The wholesome life of Torah truths
Best of everything to you!
ER
Like this comment?
1
I don’t mean to butt inhere, but I have a question about the Shule going.
I find it intolerable the whole thing, yet I have this basic love of Yiddishkeit, maybe it has to do with belonging to a group.
I too was living completely secular and was very lonely and I too found a shule to give a lot of comfort. However, after some years I am not happy going to shule anymore.
Because as a hobbyist musician, I find alot of joy in singing our tefilos to music that I create. I find this process the most spiritual by far than anything.
I find the SHule chit chat not that interesting actually. Maybe because I am in a depressed mood alot of the time, and I find that i have nothing to say. I can just play my guitar and I have it all.
But to be a professional musician, while this is a worthwhile dream and we shall see it is not in the horizon yet.
Here is my problem, it is similar to the poster’s here.
How to be able to just do it, to just go to Shule, if not 3 times a day, once a day, or 3 times a week, when you cringe and can’t stand it, and it’s not just a particular Shule, it’s all of them.
Like this comment?
1
First advice? Ignore the trolls. You did what they don’t have the guts or the intelligence to do. When they say “There is no life like Jewish life” they’re not so much trying to convince you, as they are trying to convince themselves.
They’ve been taught to hate and fear anything and anyone not like them. They’ve been fed lies about what these “others” are like, and how they live.
I promise you that out here in the world we do have communities, but here the beauty of it is that you’re not compelled to know everyone’s business. If you want to interact with your neighbours you can, if you don’t want to then you don’t have to.
There are art galleries, cinemas, education institutes that do night classes, and websites that let you arrange to meet up with people similar to you and do whatever you want!
It’s your world and your choice.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
5
Dear Bored and Lonely,
As people go through life (wherever that may be) there are,I suppose times when things come to a stansdstill as in what you wrote. While this is common to those who “left the hassidic community” its also im sure an issue for people in any lifestyle who are “transitioning”.
What being a former chusid or frum person does mean, in my experience is that we are used to more excitement, intelligence and many many restrictions. Certainly aren’t used to the flirting/dating/pickup scene in the secular world which begins in its public schools.
I’ve found that after spending a decade or so in a sad attempt at the the dream of a frum/yeshivish life is that its a lot easier to go to a class or a quieter gathering out of the city then it is to hit the bars and casually hang out. Also it seems that somehow any activity or gathering is much more acceptable if it’s in the VELT. whatever that means…
However it goes leaving an insular, bizarre and sometimes abusive religious community is I think, still a part of the Jewish story not just jumping into spiritual thin-air. Mix and match anything you can make out of this mess and dont forget to share the journey with those that will listen.
good luck,
Like this comment?
4
Dear Bored and Lonely and Adam Stein,
A little background: my wife has been kiruved shortly before we got married about 12 years ago. I have given Judaism a good shake (learning gemarrah, dovening 3 times per day, etc…) , but realized after some time (3 years) that I am shackling in front of a wall with a bunch of delusional people. After some couple of years of conflict that almost broke apart my family we have arrived at a blissful place. My wife, that I love very much, enjoys being immersed in J-ism and I choose to enjoy utility benefits that it provides, while providing her with space (accomodating) her hobby (remember I love her and J-ism does not hurt me so much). So I have no problems giving my kids brochas after singing shalom aleychem, and aishet chail. I am grateful for this tradition for its simple pleasure of mandated festive dinner once per week and I enjoy almost every part of it. Once we are done I can totally go online when I am in office and kids do not see.
Observe it to the extent that you can tolerate / enjoy it. Here are the adjustments that I have made:
- I don’t fast – hate fasting, hate headaches, don’t buy J. Dogmas.
- I come to shul in time to help to serve cholent (I screw up sometimes forgetting that it is Rosh Hodesh or some other special Parsha and might get stuck for part of the kria)
- It is obvious from the previous post that Shabbos (Fri night and Sat) are the only times I come to shul.
- I eat outside food. Do not eat pork, shell-fish out of respect for my ortho friends, it would be insulting for them, and I do not care so much (<– this is by the way is a good overall guiding principal: How much do I care about limitation of Torah / How much it would insult the frummies around me)
- I use PC in my office so kids cant see.
- I pay around 40k for education of kids in dayschool system, however I would not want them to go to public schools anyway.
Expecting 0 discomfort in life is an unreasonable expectation, and frummies is a great bunch to surround yourself and your family with. Accomodating their beliefs is the price to pay for keeping the membership in the club that has no equals.
Draw your own lines of comfort. Ivdu as Hashem besimcha
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
8
ER,a shul is made to praise god not to meet friends and socialize. BTW I’m practicing the orthodox life stile and it sucks there is noting here. Oh I forgot except diapering babies and going to vach nachts and shve bruches.
Like this comment?
1
Staavnik,
What kind of person would do this to his wife and children? They are sitting there trying to forge a relationship with Hashem and be normal functioning spiritual Yidden and you are sitting online with your hands down your pants. To make matters worse you then go on a public forum and whine about your dopey hashgofas which are based on your “feelings”. Oh how sad. I feel sorry for your family. You are on the road to nowhere and I hope Hashem throws you a line and you don’t drown any further. Hashem gives you the blessings of a good wife and children and you spit on Him and then brag about it.
I know what shul you go to and you just lost your cholent job. Stay home as we don’t need people who publicly espouse negativity about G-d and Torah like you in our shul. You need help and if you want real help and you want to truly do teshuvah and make something of yourself–contact me and perhaps there is time to still help you.
I am sorry to be so frank but I am trying to help you and your family.
Like this comment?
2
ER writes: “They are sitting there trying to forge a relationship with Hashem and be normal functioning spiritual Yidden and you are sitting online with your hands down your pants.” His hands are down his pants? I must have missed that.
Nice comment, Staavnik. Sounds like you’ve found a way to keep your family and your sanity.
Like this comment?
1
http://brooklynbrainery.com/
Like this comment?
1
Thanks there Staavnik I feel like I am in the same place as you.
It’s hard for me to come to SHule even late, I have OCD and must be on time, but you are doing it for your family I can see that.
I am too selfish I take a long walk to a library in the next town and say I went to the SHule over there. You are more honest,I wish to be more honest, your post is inspiring, please post again.
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker –
you seem to be forgetting that all the things you mentioned (babysitting, gemachim, going to everyone’s simchas) that are allegedly present in frum communities come with a price. All these so-called benefits are entirely conditional. You seem very insistent that your frum way of life is the only possible way to find happiness and satisfaction but there really is no basis for some people to enjoy the community or family if they are cast out of the fold.
Good for you Staavnik for finding middle ground – that is not an easy thing to do and your wife and family must appreciate you sacrificing your beliefs and/or immediate gratification for their sake.
Like this comment?
1
Emes Rocker, seconding Rebecca. You may seem to think Staavnik is a selfish man, who, for among other things, comes to shul not to pray but to serve chulent.
Try flipping that premise on its head. Rather, isn’t Staavnik selfLESS, sacrificing his own path in order to keep his family together? He isn’t living a double life. He’s honest and has worked hard to achieve that elusive middle ground. His wife could choose to leave, you know. He isn’t shackling her. Sounds to me like both parties are committed to one another. If anything, Staavnik is giving up the most by agreeing to raise his children according to his wife’s desire.
Like this comment?
1
I would agree with the both you if I did not believe that the Torah was the absolute truth. I have no problem telling you that I believe in absolute truth.
I believe in reward and punishment as stated in the Torah and explained by our sages. I believe the tochacha of the Torah in parshas Bechokosai and elsewhere that explains in graphic detail what happens to the Jewish people if they do not keep the Torah and what happens to the Jewish people when they do keep the Torah.
I believe that the success of a Jewish soul in this world is based on the extent that one is connected to Hashem through Torah and mitzvos to the best of ones ability. No two people are the same but everyone has to strive for the highest levels. I feel that a Jewish soul that is far from G-d is like an empty shell, like the walking dead, like a great kings daughter that is far from home.
I believe that keeping the Torah properly and steadfastly gives a person not only a much better olam haba but also a much more happy and healthy–physically and spiritually, Olam Hazeh!
One cannot truly have real pleasure in this world without connecting to the Creator of the world. Everything you see is a turn on! Every leaf, every smile of a child, every raindrop, every sound, every melody, every sigh, every touch, every everything sparkles life and energy and is a personal gift from Hashem. When you tune into this you can enjoy a piece of gefilte fish likes its a symphony, you can eat challah like you are standing in a waterfall and you can hug your spouse and feel every inch of their being in the deepest depths of love.
We are so fortunate to be Yidden!! Let’s maximize this gift and not throw it away.
Like this comment?
1
Emes, have fun believing in all your narishkeit. I am sure it makes you feel like you are living a meaningful life. even though its all not ture.
Like this comment?
1
Jacob, to dignify your bullshit with the name “strawman” is to give it too much credit. It would be more accurate to say that the frum viewpoint is “Obey. Obey. Obey. Your only function is to churn out babies you can’t support and mindlessly mutter incantations in dead languages.”
Like this comment?
1
What you miss is having your time laid out for you. When you were Chassidic everything was prescribed. Prayers, rituals, companionship, activities, food, clothing, singing, socializing. You could drift along knowing what you were going to do at any moment and with whom you were going to do it.
Being responsible for your own time is a little more difficult but much more rewarding. It’s more than “TV and treyf, smoking and smut”. What activities and people actually bring you joy? What would you spend hours working on for its own sake? Finding that out tells you a lot about yourself as you really are, not just what others tell you you’re supposed to be.
Once you take that step you become an adult in a number of ways you never had to before. And you’ll find that it’s almost impossible to be bored. At the most basic level there’s exercise, the sheer healthy joy of moving your body around. It can take many forms from running to weight lifting to martial arts to dancing. And no, non-Chassids don’t just dance to get into others’ pants. It’s one of the fundamental happy human activities.
There are whole universes of knowledge and pleasure in books. I won’t have time to read a tenth of the things I want to. History, science, biographies, philosophy, literature, humor, the life of the mind is infinite in its variety. That’s just reading. Start writing yourself. Create poetry. Become an essayist. Write a short story a week for a year.
Play a musical instrument. Build a musical instrument. Carve wood. Pick up Dave Gingery’s six little books and become a gonzo midnight machinist. Paint. Learn to cook, really cook, not just the three or four recipes that were your mom’s specialties. Brew beer. Take up plant alchemy and extract the quintessence of lemon balm. Get a dog and train it. Go to Toastmaster’s meetings and become comfortable speaking in public. Find an interesting program in the Apache project and become an Open Source contributor. Get a small loom and weave. Join a book club. Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or the local Search and Rescue or the Police Reserves or Boy Scout troop. Become a Red Cross Emergency Responder. Teach someone to read in an adult literacy program. Get a mallet, a drilling hammer, a stone point, a few chisels and sculpt stone in your living room. Or find a used table-top lathe and turn pens and bowls. Find a range and do shooting sports.
That doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of things you can do. And if you find something to do you will find people who do similar things. You will be less lonely, or at least too busy to notice it.
If you’re bored it’s a failure of imagination. Exercise yours.
Like this comment?
2
Emes Rocker, you believe that ritual, mindless obedience, submission, routine, idolatry and hatred of everything except your own tiny corner of the world is the only good way to live.
There is much more to life. And no, it doesn’t have to be “ME! ME! ME!” Some of the most selfless, giving, kind people I know are absolutely godless radical atheists. So are some of the most selfish jerks. It’s just like the frum world or any other society.
Like this comment?
1
Hey Todd,
I am all for all of the activities you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with having hobbies, being involved with the arts, playing instruments, joining the Red cross etc…
If the chassidishe world does not approve of these things then for sure one should consider that perhaps that world is not for him/her.
Nonetheless, it would be foolish to allow these hobbies to be a replacement of Torah and mitzvos. One does not have to be chassidishe to be a Yid. There are plenty of different types of Torah Yidden in the world. The Torah is true and is the guidebook to the universe for all Jews whether all you do all day is learn gemara or or if you as you say:
“Brew beer. Take up plant alchemy and extract the quintessence of lemon balm. Get a dog and train it. Go to Toastmaster’s meetings and become comfortable speaking in public. Find an interesting program in the Apache project and become an Open Source contributor. Get a small loom and weave. Join a book club. Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or the local Search and Rescue or the Police Reserves or Boy Scout troop.”
I am all for being well rounded. I myself am into many aspects of music, poetry, art and many other things. Nonetheless, G-d is central. Torah is central. Mitzvos are central. Everything revolves around that. Still though my world is very big and gets bigger all the time. Anyone who has ever learned Gemara knows that our sages discuss all subjects. It is clear that they all were worldly and knowledgeable about crafts, arts, science, medicine and everything else.
Of course all that I just said has to done with caution because just like the world is full of endless kosher pleasures, we do live in a time where one can easily be seduced by things that will lead to nothing but misery.
One has to be wise to navigate these waters safely.
Happy sailing to all!!
Like this comment?
2
Rocker,
Path outside of frumkeit is very difficult, much more so than the way in (since they get you in with small incremental commitments and peer pressure.) It puts tremendous pressure on those that want to get out. Forums like this one help OTD folks to connect with others in the same situation and give them comfort, advice, and support.
BUGGER OFF!
We get you – “Torah is truth and Emes Rocker’s emunnah is very strong”
Thank you.
Like this comment?
3
To all my friends toying with the idea of throwing away all of your wealth of Jewish life:
I will state it all very simply.
I have been outside and I have been inside. I have lived and worked in the secular world my whole life. I have met world leaders and some of the biggest power brokers in this country. I have a perspective that goes far beyond Brooklyn.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I will say it anyway because we are all family:
There is no question that if one takes his/her living the Torah life seriously, then Torah life is a life of real depth, beauty and truth. There is no system of life that gives one a deeper sense of G-dliness, Oneness with the universe and simchas HaChaim. But and this is a big BUT- you have to choose to do the Torah seriously. You can’t be a Flatbush minyon hopper, an Emporio mannican or a New York Post reader.
You have to seriously strive to be close to Hashem through learning Torah and doing mitzvos to the best of your abilities. You have to become a SEEKER. Not everyone can learn for hours a day and daven likes its Yom Kippur everyday. However each of has to strive to reach whatever spiritual potential that is within us and we are only judged based on who we are and it is not based on anyone else.
It is hard work. But nothing valuable is easy. It is irrelevant if your parents did it, or if they did not do it. It is not an inheritance. You have to be a seeker. Someone who wants to grow.
Granted we all know that there are people in the Torah world who are far from perfect. No need to dwell on that. There are also many truly chushuv, baalei chesed, baalei tzedaka, chochomim and nashim tzidkanious of the likes that are far beyond what you will ever see living “outside”. You will see on the outside that chesed is such a rare occurence that it sometimes gets written up in the newspaper. There is more chesed being done in one day in for example Monsey than you will see in decades in the secular world.
Perhaps your parents were not exactly the world’s best.
Perhaps they were simply total losers. Perhaps your teachers were sometimes far from Rabbi Akiva. Perhaps life has thrown you some very difficult challenges.
However, you were given diamonds. Perhaps there are some flaws. Nonetheless they are still diamonds. Don’t choose tin.
I believe that in the long run you will be more disillusioned in the so called “outside” world than you ever were on the inside. You can be sure that no one will care about you in the secular world. You may find a spouse that cares a little but to everyone else you will be a nobody. Just another brick in the wall. Another statistic.
In the Torah world you count, not just for a minyan but because you are family. You are the son and daughter of kings and queens, of royalty. If that sounds “sanctimonious” well thats life. It is what it is and it is a tremendous bracha for all of us.
You are welcome in my home anytime even though I do not know you.
You are mishpocha.
You can contact me if you have any questions. mitchcohen123@gmail.com
Like this comment?
1
ER, all those things are well and good, but ITS NOT TURE.
that point seems to bother some people out there.
I see it does not bother you – and thats fine. gezunta hait. enjoy your bliss.
for others, its just impossible to reconcile living such a life based on fairy tales and man-made narishkeit.
Like this comment?
3
ER,
You say these things about Judaism, but Muslims say the same thing about Islam and Christians about Christianity. There are “Religious people” (however you define that term) from every religion that fully believe that their way of life is correct. What makes you so confident about Judaism, and what gives you the right to say that every other religion is incorrect. I do believe in God, but what makes you so certain the ways of the “Orthodox Jew” is the only way to go about living life in a Godly fashion? You must admit that there are aspects of Judaism that are completely outdated and somewhat irrational. I loooove the cultural aspect of Judaism and belonging to the Jewish community, thus, publilcy I play my part (to a certain extent). However, any educated person who opens their eyes will realize that there are things in Judaism (not necessarily from the torah, but minhagim/assurie drabanen) that are completely bogus, and are hard too look beyond. Still, I am happy for you that you can accept everything without question and go on with your life. I wish i was able to say the same.
This comment is well liked. Like it too?
7
The whole look of your web site is fantastic, let well as the content material!
Like this comment?
1